ECN Forum
Posted By: sparky Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 11:21 AM
Ok, you've jumped thru hoops of fire to provide 5 star service to a customer who now is treating you like a leper beacuse it's time to pay up.

whadda ya do?
within the bounds of legality

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Posted By: Redsy Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 11:40 AM
Has he outright refused to pay, is it a disagreement over cost or quality, or is he claiming to be a little short right now? I have often wondered the same thing. I believe that the materials used are still yours until you are paid. If you have access, start to remove them (unless he has a gun). Did you have a signed agreement. I try to get one on anything over around $500.00.
Posted By: electure Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 11:58 AM
Our lien law protects us. On even a service call, we have a preliminary notice printed on the sheet that is signed by the customer.
Posted By: WARREN1 Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 12:27 PM
Being in the design end of the electrical world, I find it extremely important to understand the Scope of Work. Once I get that understanding, I can proceed with the design and schedule my deliverables. Therefore, I think it is imperative to make sure all parties are in agreement as to the Scope of Work to be performed. This may mean that you have a "tool box" meeting with your client just prior to beginning the work and go over your understanding of the work to be performed. On all projects, a written contract is in the best interest of both parties with the contract having an explicitly written Scope of Work with completion and payment schedules. This may sound like a lot of work for a small project under $500, but you(we) can't afford to lose the investment of time and money in any project.
My nephew tried to get into the lawn care business. I gave him similar advice, sketch out the yard and mark areas that the client wanted a particular care given and show it to the client. Fortunately, after a few misunderstandings, he got out of that business. He didn't follow my advice.
There are probably many books out there on this very subject, and I apologize for writing another book here.
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 01:15 PM
If it attached to a building, then it is part of that building, removing items wold be illegal. The only recourse would really be to get a lien, or badger them until they pay up.

I've learned that po' folks will actually have the money in their pockets before they call you, whereas, the well-to-do can't pay you "...today 'cause my secretary is on vacation until August" or something equally asinine. Or they only do bills on the second tuesday of the fifth week of the 13th month...

My wealthiest customers are the slowest to pay... this is almost a rule.



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-12-2001).]
Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 07:08 PM
I try and give everyone a clue, basically if there is a known amount of work, one can either bid it out or give an estimate, both with prints, signatures, handshakes & kisses.

Then there is the unknown as in a fish job, were i usually need to explain my x-ray vision deficientcy.
that always makes 'em go hmmmmmm

I have entertained complaints, quantum electrical theories from mindless fools, brought-my-own-eggs,insinuations of material price gouging, as well as rude putdowns of my personal intergrity as a tradesman, all to elude the eagle's deficational due date.
all in a day's work..... [Linked Image]

WARREN1.... call the publisher!

I've gotten fairly good at liens, but they are really only for your hiers to make good on, they are only paper...

I am interested in how others in the trade go about this dirty work, i really hate chasing people for a $$, but i gotta feed the fam, i have not found a collection agency that will bother with under four zero's....

Of interest, i have a few friends in the cop shop, one of which i gave a particularly stubborn lien holder who had'nt budged given all my mailings & ranting.
He gave it to his 'hachet man' , now i get checks in the mail, he won't tell me who this individual(s) is/are, says i don't want to know.... [Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 07-12-2001).]
Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 08:15 PM
Virgil, you do any of those whinny cry-in-yer-beer country tunes? maybe Mr. Webmaster could insert into this thread huh?
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Posted By: Tom Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 09:44 PM
Virgil,

You can tell them you're on the way to the courthouse to place the lien. Remind them that this will show up in the newspaper, most folks don't want others to know they are deadbeats so they might pay up. After you place the lien, wait a couple of weeks & file in magistrates court & haul them in. You are now suing for the job & the reasonable costs of placing & removing the lien and of course the costs of filing the suit & serving the papers. All these extras could exceed the cost of the job. Judgement goes to you & they still don't pay up, time for the Sheriff to auction off some of their property.

I remember when I was on the service call truck for a shop in California, boss would dispatch me to a Doctor's home or office, he always had me collect $100 prior to starting work & told me to call in if it looked major so he could come get more money.

Good luck.

Tom
Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/12/01 11:32 PM
frustrating thread !

guess we all gotta vent somehow!

anyone up for clubbin' baby seals?
Posted By: bhester Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/13/01 02:22 AM
I have heard of an A/C contractor that has lost money on jobs and what he does is at the end of the year he sends them a 1099 on the amount owed.According to my source an attorney told him to do this if they don't pay us let them pay the IRS.
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/13/01 02:34 AM
Tom,

I'm not the one having trouble, but I'll keep your advice in mind when the time comes.

Steve, (sparky) was the one wanting to know.

My only slow payers was the local cellphone CEO, and was the secretary only doing pay outs once a month. I've never had a cu$tomer refuse payment for more than 30 days. Guess I'm spoiled there, one local sparky has waited several months for the city gov't to pay him about $25K ... I've heard that churches are often slow to pay...
Don't want to stereotype though...

I had big credit trouble with another business several years ago... A whole 'nuther story though...
Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/14/01 09:55 AM
http://forum.freeadvice.com/

A resource here for this threads concerns

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Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/17/01 11:54 PM
http://www.nationalrevenue.com/index.html


TEETH ! by God!
Posted By: Mike Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/18/01 01:54 PM
How about 50% down before you start the service change. Then, don't request an inspection until you receive the remaining 50%. Or, don't connect the service drop until you receive the remaining 50%.
Posted By: jsimanella Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/21/01 06:28 PM
First you work for your money....Then you beg for it!!!

(anyone think about not paying a mechanic when he's done w/ your truck - maybe he'll give you 60-90 days?)

BTW - Nice forum
Posted By: Resistor Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/21/01 10:05 PM
Back when we used to do residential additions often. Every once in a while I would run into someone that had the nerve enough to tell me that I charged too much.

After a short conversation explaining how much more the value of the property would be compared to the cost of the work, they usually relented.

Although to this day I don't really know the actual difference in value. [Linked Image] They know less than me so, I just want my money, I know I don't really charge enough for the job value anyway. But you can't please everyone, but you have to stick up for yourself.
Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/22/01 02:52 PM
but you have to stick up for yourself.

that bears repeating resistor...

I had to be the bad guy last week...a certain biz in town....i waited until it was full of customers and employee's to stomp on in, ( a pix of my staring kids in hand) [Linked Image]

I slapped my overdue bill on the receptionist's desk and asked for the owner
who's mother was a hampster, and father smelt of elderberry!
I had previously mailed, and called many times, the last time i called i asked if i had to "make a scene" to get paid...
He saw me from afar, ran the other way, and told the secretary to pay me off....

Public humiliation can be a powerful asset, i had planned to at least get the local PD down...and word get's around quick in a small town.

I think he saw that gleen in my eye, oh well, i live to run away and be obnoxious another day.
[Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/22/01 03:24 PM
Glad to see you finally got paid...

I've got a customer now who's just the opposite... Can't wait for her bill... Doesn't like to owe anybody... They paid $80 cash "deposit" before they'd let me leave! My kind of customer...
Posted By: bmaugeri Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/25/01 12:31 PM
Sparky,
Invoice Frequently

Your contract should allow for frequent progress payments.

Frequent invoicing does several things: First, it helps your cash flow. Secondly, it allows the customer to understand that work has been done. Therefore, the customer may not have the opportunity to later say, "I didn't know that you had done this." Payment by the owner would be a means of proving acceptance of the work paid for. Further, if there is going to be a dispute, you are better off having the breakdown occur early. If you are going to have problems collecting your money, it would be better that you are owed a little rather than a lot.

Good luck!
Beth
Remote Office Solutions

[This message has been edited by bmaugeri (edited 07-25-2001).]
Posted By: bmaugeri Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/25/01 04:41 PM
Let’s look at this collection tactic in its entirety with a step-by-step on how to employ it.

The concept behind a 1099 form is to report the miscellaneous payments to outside non-corporate vendors for non-merchandise related services in excess of $600 in a tax year. We hear some contractors claim that you can send a 1099 form to debtors because they received a service without paying for it, therefore it is income that must be reported.

The problem with this is it’s utterly false and doesn’t comply with the IRS rules. But when it comes to collecting monies owed by professional debtors, sometimes it’s the sizzle more than the substance. But a word of caution; check with legal counsel familiar with IRS rules before you go filing a 1099 form as a collection tactic.

With that caveat aside, here’s how to employ the technique if counsel give you a green light:

Start by sending a demand letter to your debtor. You can get an example of a quite heavy handed collection demand letter within this Forum.

If this demand letter fails, send a copy of a 1099 form listing the clients name along with a second letter:

"Dear Deadbeat Debtor,

As you recall, we sent you a demand letter dated XXX which has gone ignored. Because you have contracted and enjoyed the benefits of our services but have not paid for them, this potentially constitutes income subject to income reporting and taxation.

Enclosed please find a copy of the 1099 form. Unless you decide to provide us with your social security number which is your “recipient ID”, we will send the enclosed 1099 with the notation” taxpayer refused to give their S.S.N.

This form will be sent to the IRS and unless you reported the income, this may red flag your returns and trigger an audit.

"Enclosed find a letter to the IRS we will send along with the 1099. A copy of this letter will be cc’ed to the local IRS enforcement office.

If we receive funds in full per the lawful contract you entered into within the next 10 days, we will cancel the 1099 form and letter."


Now below is the letter you can enclose with the 1099 form:

"To Whom It May Concern,

Enclosed please find a 1099 form on Mr./Mrs. Deadbeat Debtor. We were unable to obtain from this taxpayer their social security identification number as they refused to provide it, but the taxpayers address and name are correct.

The income reported represents the value of the services we rendered that they refused to pay for, hence we are reporting this as income to the taxpayer under the miscellaneous rule.

Please verify with the taxpayers returns to ensure that they haven’t hidden this income from your agency.

Thank you.

Billy Bad-Ass, President
Take No Prisoners Plumbing

( Another One for you)
Beth
Remote Office
(am I through with the Hazing yet???)
Posted By: sparky Re: Anyone want to PAY? - 07/25/01 11:30 PM
I'd say you've revealed an incisor...
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