Girl's question has me wondering---
Where do you live, and what's the going range for some of the following:
1) 200 Amp residentail upgrade. SE Cable(25'), 20-30 existing ckts, surface mt.
2) Same as above, except flush mount in drywall with average cutting/patching.
3)Ceiling fan with attic access, and fed from switchbox with 14-3.
4) Same as above with no access above
(cutting & drilling required)
5)Minimum billing rate-first hour, each additional hour.
6)Name your own job $ price range.

1) $1200
2) $1500
3) T&M est $80, U fetch the fan
4) T&M, pack a lunch...
5) serv call (hr or under $35) $30 otherwise
6) U mean what size job i'll take on?

Great Q Redsy!! Keep in mind my "20"....

1)$800
2)$950
3)$50 to $75
4)$75 to $100
5)$50 minimum (I rarely stick to it though, they can usually find a few hours work to do "for free" when I explain it to them...), $22 per hour (usually $20 for old customers)

6)New Residential (framed) less fixtures... $2 to $2.50 per Sq Ft, $4 per amp for service. (About $5K for a 2000 Sq Ft house)

Awesome question.... Wish I had input from some local guys about the going rates...

Redsy;
it is a great Q!
but we need a city sparky to chime in here..., after all Girl is from Boston !
all U got is 2 hick sparky's....... w/ manure bettween their toe's !
lol!

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 07-11-2001).]

I live in a Phila. suburb--
1) $1000
2) $1200
3) $125
4) $150 +
5) $75/45. Or lower (based on attitude).I wouldn't charge $75.00 just to change a switch or receptacle.
6) Off-peak(time-of use)metering system-- $400-600

Sparky,

How many AFCI's does your price include?

Bill,
good point, I usually figure 3-5 but it could be quite a few!

Redsy,
love the 'attitude' part, to be honest there is no $$$ for some people's attitude!

any bids per stop??

We only do ind/comm work, so about all I can relate to is:
5) $50 hr. 1 hr. minimum, drive time paid to job. Drive time paid back to shop for last job of the day.

(Manure between the toes? I've got a pic of me surfing down the side of a 30' tall pile when we scraped out the 3 acre horse corral. Lots of fun 'til I "ate it". Then I had to brush my teeth for hours before the taste went away)

Ewwwwwwww! lol


Price per stop, $25 to $30

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-11-2001).]

66' may get jealous, but here goes

1. $1000, I don't use entrance cable.

2 Same price & I'll give you the telephone # of someone who will do the repair better & cheaper than I could do it.

3. I only do these for friends, I hate ceiling fans.

4. Ditto

5. $33/hr one hour minimum plus 34 cents a mile. Time starts at the end of my driveway, ends when I get back. If the customer offers to help, $66 an hour.

6. Commercial & light industrial about $2.50 to $3.00 per foot based on my records. Service voltage & lighting package can have a big impact on this price as can a high amp service on a small building.

1)Ammended...I just did a 200A mobile home (double wide) service. Overhead 10' GRC mast, 50' of 2" PVC to panel. 60' of Tri-rated cable. 45' of Tri-rated single conductor, 2 g-rods (bent )
2 LB's and a 90, hung with Min-E's on caddy beam clamps...

No SE Cable... All Pipe...

Cost less inspection, $599.

Customer supplied the Feed-Through Disco (read-used).
Had to use several plugs for it though...


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-11-2001).]

My last post might help explain why I'm full of the stuff.
Do any of you use combination/all in 1 services?? Are these at all common in the East & Midwest? I've only seen meter pan w/ the MB/panel inside in your pics.

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 07-11-2001).]

We use many meter/main combo's due to the meter position having to be under the gable end of a home per the utility, i guess there's been a few meter readers lost until the spring thaw.
which is usually a bad location for the panel inside, for one reason or another

Then there are the service laterals to mobile homes, all pedestal deals , combo units.
Try and find 350kcmil lugs meter/ main combo, underground rated for $250-$300, and if the utility wants a bypass add $ 100, that's just the meter!


[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 07-11-2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom:
[B]
5. $33/hr one hour minimum plus 34 cents a mile. Time starts at the end of my driveway, ends when I get back. If the customer offers to help, $66 an hour.

Reminds me of the contest where 1st prize is a week in Phila. 2nd prize is 2 weeks.

Electure,

We use Meter/MB combos here where the Panel is located a distance away from the point of SE entry. Utility requires a Bypass in the Meter so a 200A (single phase) unit sells for between $400 and $500. (just the Meter and Main Breaker Combo)

Bill

Redsy,


Do you patch and spackle too? Paint?


Bill

1)$850.00
2)$1000.00
3)$200.00
4)$350.00
5)$40.00/30.00
6) New residential-$750.00 for 200A ug serv w/o disconnect. $27.00 per opening, customer supplies fixtures. TV & phone- $20.00 per opening I supply jackplates. I only do custom homes, no tract.

Bill,
I meant branch C/B's also. I think it might be weather. I can't imagine having to go outside in the freeeeeze.
Ours are a complete unit usually. Weatherhead, mast, meter, main, branch c/b's within a linear space of 10' or so.

electure;
oh, those units! the only time i've seen them is on a trip to AZ. I thought there were rather neat, but would not do well in N.E.
i was really impressed by 108 in the shade out there

I will often put 1 coat of spackle on living space walls or ceilings. On a flush panel that needs a larger opening in a utility room, or other non-living area, I'll put up new drywall, but leave the screw heads unspackled.


[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 07-12-2001).]

Everyone forgot to mention their region.

The per hour rates all sound low. I'm in north central Illinois and the wage and benifit package for a JW is 43.35 without any contractor profit or overhead. Contractor billing rates are in the high $60s to low $70s.
Don

Southern West By God Virginia...

Now I am getting jealous...

I remember $32.05 union wages for a Journeyman in Wisconsin, plus benefits...

If I were to get a job as a master here, I could expect no more than $12 per hour (probably more like $8) and absolutely no benefits. So I'm paying myself almost double what I'd be paid from someone else.

North Central West By God Virginia.

Prevailing wage & benefits come to about $33 an hour, which is what I charge. Since I'm a one man shop, all overhead is calculated in the material pricing.

Tom

1)$900 2)$1000.00 3)$60.00 4)t&m 5)$27.00 hr. 6)100 amp revamp $550.00 and up OHIO

Vermont

the 'arc-less' state

I am in Westchester County NY, suburb of NYC.

1) 200 Amp residentail upgrade. SE Cable(25'), 20-30 existing ckts, surface mt.

$1500 I am doing one of these tomorrow for $1800 because house has knob and tube wiring, 45 feet of SEU, using copper, and square d panel to replace existing, normally I would use a murray or ge contractor kit for less$$.

2) Same as above, except flush mount in drywall with average cutting/patching.

$1800-$1900

3)Ceiling fan with attic access, and fed from switchbox with 14-3.

$300 fan included

4) Same as above with no access above
(cutting & drilling required)

$400 just put two industrial types in a laundromat for $600 had to bend EMT

5)Minimum billing rate-first hour, each additional hour.

$45-$55 per hour depends on nature of work residential

$65 per hour commercial

May sound high to you guys, but the cost of doing business is high here. A typical job costs $20-$40 to file, $40-$100 for underwriters inspection, special paralell groove connectors for Con Ed are $14 each, Parking ticket $55 , lunch $8-$12, parking garage to avoid ticket $28. Bribe $50

That brings up another good Q...

What materials Markup?

Me: 0% to 20%, usually 0%

Haven't figured out how to "justify" the extra cost to a customer if they ask why...
Especially those that are savvy on what things cost... (75 cents for a 50 cent outlet?!?!)

Don't want to encourage them to get the [wrong] materials themselves... been down that road before...




[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-12-2001).]

Silverbk,

You pay for connectors from Con ed? (We get them Free from Lipa)

I don't envy any work in the city! I used to do moving jobs in and around NYC. Double parking, tickets, walkups, service elevators, paying the service elevator guy to come back, ah, the memories come flooding back! I don't like to work at the shopping malls either for the same reasons.

Bill

Materials gotta have a markup, all the taxes,supplier paperwork,etc must not only be passed on, ya gotta make at least 10% bare minimum for anything that goes thru your books.

If i buy a part for $10, i will pay sales tax of 5%, if i sell it to you it will constitute taxable income for me, etc. Those quarterly checks to big bro help me understand the math.

If you wanna go to home depot or lowes, go right ahead. Don't ask that i stand behind the product.

Mark-up 10-25%, depending on cost. I like to have a minimum (nuisance) cost for small items like receptacles. This covers the cost of going to buy them and storing them on the truck. Marking up materials also helps me offset the cost any overlooked problems.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 07-13-2001).]

So CA here.
Materials on estimated jobs - 20%
Materials on service calls - 30%
Materials are priced from Traser, a computer program which is updated monthly.

Boy, I'm just shooting myself in both feet ,then....

40 % on all material.have to pay taxes,insurance,workers comp.

wanna do lunch?
let's grab a sub

bun= $.40
meat= $.80
cheese= $.20
veggies=$.25
wrapping paper= $.10

You fork out $4

This is the public's view...

Now do the math including ALL the overhead.

Virgil,

Overhead is "the cost of doing business."

Your telephone is free?
Post office delivers your mail for free?
You carry no insurance?
No licensing fees? (I know better)
Do you pay an accountant?
Those free estimates aren't really free, the time spent is a part of overhead.
I could go on, but you should be getting the picture.

I've been known to charge for tools. Yours never wear out or get broken? I rarely need my conduit threader but someone has to pay for it & it won't be me.

If you're legit, you've got overhead. If you're a wood butcher working for cash (Virgil's competition), you don't.

Most contractors in North Central WV use a 25% markup (minimum) & this means only a 5 to 7% profit on the material. Think about that, you bust one fitting at 5% profit, that means you have to sell 20 more just to pay for it.

If you can find it, "Small Time Operator" is one of the best books I've ever seen about running a small business. Check your library. It is an eye opener.

Tom



[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 07-13-2001).]

On the otherhand, you could start the clock running at the supplyhouse.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Addiss:
[B]Silverbk,

You pay for connectors from Con ed? (We get them Free from Lipa)

They used to give them to me free or do them themselves with a hi press, now just like meter pans you have to buy them at the supply house, they require a Richards Paralell groove connector, with a plastic cover about $14 at my supply house.

We do have to buy wire, and high density plastic pipe from them, they are not letting anyone else supply these items yet. They are the absolute worst company to deal with, ut of the four utilities I deal with they suck bigtime.

Ok, I don't pay an accountant (I can do a better job myself for free...) but all the other expenses I have... 'cept worker's comp...

I guess I feel sorry for people, heck I'm making double what most do around here, and I'm still in the 15% bracket...

I got to do some billing now, but I'll be back with questions on how to approach all of this...

Thanks for all the input guys...

I am the #2 man for a small central nebraska contractor. We currently have ten men counting our summer help.

Billing rate is $30/hr for residential/farm, $35 for industrial. Charge $17.50 service call to get to the front door. Minimum charge is $30.

We shoot for 30% mark-up, but will cut that to be competitive.

My pay is $18.25. I'll make 45k+ this year without the headaches of being a business owner. The boss will do considerably better than that, but HE EARNS IT!!!
I don't have to handle many midnight/weekend calls.

GJ

The bottom line is the bottom line. If you are running a company, things are going well and are making just a little better than you were as an employee, you cannot weather hard times. If you are a one man out-fit or one journeyman and several helpers, what happens if you can't work. Happened to me in 96. Out for one month for falling through an attic and almost 3 months cause I had to have a kidney taken out. Even if the medical is covered by insurance, if the real net for the work you do is not enough to keep you going for a reasonable amount of time when the work is not there or you can't do it yourself the business will not survive. I brought my brother in to replace me. Can you afford to pay your take to someone else and still survive? Will your regular customers stick with you or come back to you if they had to use someone else? What if that someone else is barely making a living by charging less but does as goood or better work? If you have disability insurance for yourself that is also overhead and the customers need to be the ones to pay it, like the employer pays workmans comp and unemployment for employees. Your employer is the customer. I've been out of contracting for around 2 years. I just had better options. I am making more take-home and the stock options, insurance, paid vacations (3 weeks), basic 40 hour week, technical challenges as opposed to management and business challenges, nice office environment (no rain outs and loss of income) and liberal sick day policy(not used yet but nice to know it's there) allow me to sleep better and devote time to other important things that were neglected when surviving on 40 plus hours a week. If I did not have other options I would be a contracor rather than work for someone else. But, it would be on Other People's Money, I would draw a regular salary, there would be an office manager or manager/estimator/purchaser/payroll/etc to take care of the things I used to do after the "real" work was done. I learned too much from the experience of being a one man show to want to take that route again. If you are one man doing $200,000 gross a year you may be making $50,000. If you are part owner drawing a $50K salary, and investors are financing the projects, you can do much bigger jobs and not have to worry about starving this week to get ahead later. If you are lucky you might end up like Henry Ford. He had to pay millions to buy out his investors(Chevrolet, Olds and others who later became his competition) to get control of his company back, but he never had to worry about the light bill and groceries.

OK, you bring up lots of questions, so I'll start a new thread...

Go here ...

How much for a through-the-roof attic fan on a 2 story home with a switch installed in a bedroom to override the t-stat? Power is tapped from a convenient j-box in the attic.

This time of year? If there are compelling reasons not to turn it down do it time and materials. Charge double your normal rate for attic time. I can't imagine anyone (other than Mom) that means enough to me to do it for less.

1)200 amp svc. with 20-30 circcuits ? easily 1050-1150.
2) same job surface mount sparky has it right on the money.
3)ceiling fan with crwspace access, figure 4 hours labor about 160-175.
4 same job no acccess prolly 225
5)first hour 65 each additonal hour 35
6)New construction 2.50 to 3.00 /sq.ft.

#1 200 amp upgrade 1200 no se cable allowed here
#2 same price and i recomend a good drywall man i dont do mudding taping or painting.
#3 t&m #4 t&m
#5 45.00/manhour travel time.34/mle if over 20 miles.

mark up on materials 10% above my cost. manhours charged to go to and return from supply house.
do not warrent materials supplied by others.
will waver travel when customer is decent
will not warrent anything if customer is late on pay.
have to cover overhead IRS and insurance co want cash now.