ECN Forum
Posted By: sparky66wv Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 04:35 AM
I'm getting ready to go for the 1 and 2 family dwelling test for Electrical Inspectors given by Experior. I'm reasonably confident in my ability to pass the test given that the questions are straightforward... but in the study guides I've ran into a couple that may even be considered "wrong" because in my opinion, either not enough data is in the question to derive the answer from the 4 choices, or the answer should be "none of the above" when it's not available.

Case in point...

Quote

20. Which one of the following methods is NOT acceptable for bonding metal conduit to a service panelboard enclosure?

A. Threaded hub on top of enclosure
B. Bonding type locknut on inside of enclosure
C. Bonding bushing with bonding jumper
D. Standard locknuts and bushings with locknuts both inside and outside of enclosure


According to the answer sheet, the correct answer is "D"... but I feel that there is not enough information, or the answer is "none of the above", because there is no mention of whether or not eccentric or concentric knockouts are being used.

Refer to 250-94 '99 NEC

Am I just missing something here (again)?

[Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-05-2001).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 05:02 AM
'66,

Glad to see some initiative going on there. [Linked Image] Good Luck!

Check the last sentence of 250-94
Quote
.. Standard locknuts or bushings shall not be the sole means for the bonding required by this section

Go get 'em

Bill
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 05:08 AM
Perhaps what the NEC meant to say is that while no one denies that std lock nuts and bushings provide some electrical connectivity, they are not to be considered electrically bonding.
Posted By: sparky Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 09:47 AM
Virgil;
how to take a test is the real Q, most multiple quess tests subscribe to a certain philosiphy, one Q is out in left field, one Q is headed there, the two remaining Q's compete for the A, usually determined via a key word in the original question, which may be slightly shy of pertinent data as you mention.

good luck!

[Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 01:23 PM
OK... Now I see, I was reading into it too much since it's all in the same paragraph, the part about concentric and eccentric KO's... But it's not in the same sentence... I got it now... I hope there aren't too many others like this that I'm goofing on...

Thanks for the help...

And I've come to the realization that you can't buy a 2" nipple without buying a bonding bushing to go with it...Regardless of the presence of KO's or not... I had thought in the past that the rule only applies to Boxes with KO's... Do I have this right?

[Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-05-2001).]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 07:15 PM
Uhhh..

Now I know where I got confused...

Why does the NEC bother mentioning the concentric and eccentric KO's in 250-94 if it doesn't matter? It seems to only confuse things with extrapolated "exceptions" that aren't really there...

I thought it had meant that if the hole has been drilled, cut, or the largest size eccentric or concentric KO used, then standard locknuts and bushings were OK... Where the heck did I get that?

If the bonding cannot rely on standard locknuts and bushings on a GRC nipple between the meter can and the disco, regardless of the type, then I can safely say that I have installed the only legal service using a GRC nipple in Greenbrier County WV!

Or am I analyzing to the point of blindness here?

[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-05-2001).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 07:57 PM
>If the bonding cannot rely on standard locknuts
I think they mean that you can use bonding-type locknuts... "standard locknuts" are not suitable for effective bonding in this case.
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 08:10 PM
Maybe I don't know what a bonding locknut is...

I thought it was similar to a bonding bushing in having a lug to terminate #4 bare Cu wire for bonding... Or is it a locknut that simply makes better contact with the boxes surface?

My supplier knows nothing of bonding locknuts, only bushings.

The standard Locknuts and Bushings readily pass inspection here... That is until I left a message on his machine to bear in mind 250-94...

The whole mess didn't even come to light until I had broken a KO in a meterbase and had to see what I needed to do, go here to "relive" that...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 09:04 PM
Bonding-type locknuts are designed to gouge the box when tightened whereas grounding-type bushings have a set screw and a lug for a copper jumper.

I would use a bonding locknut directly only when the hole was at its maximum size with nothing left to be knocked out. Otherwise the locknut may chew out the frangible attachment of the remaining KO.

The NEC need to include sample illustrations in case folks are using different terminology. It is obvious that many of us still say "grounding" rather than "bonding".
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 09:31 PM
So what I'm calling "standard" locknuts, they fit you're description of "bonding" locknuts in that they are designed to dig in as they are tightened... And I was out of line on the phone call to the AHJ...

Apparently, my supplier carries bonding locknuts but not the standard ones...

Boy I am mixed up....

Just discovered that some of my assumptions may have come from one of the questions on Mike Holt's Code Quiz... I don't think a URL link will work with the exact page the question is on, though, being a CGI script.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-05-2001).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 09:55 PM
Boy I am mixed up....
I think it's the terminology.

We need more pictures.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 10:07 PM
'66,

You cannot link to the page. If you can copy the question and paste it here We can disect it. Or, tell me what it was about and I will find it.

Bill
Posted By: Tom Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 10:38 PM
66',

A bonding locknut does have a set screw that is pointed & will dig into the sheet metal. The screw must make up outside any pryout rings & this usually means all of the rings must be removed.

I thought I told you to read all the questions carefully. If I didn't, sorry 'bout that.

You should have heard all the screams early in the inspection program when we told folks they'd have to take apart their work & install the ground bushing.

Good luck on your test. Where are you going for it, Charleston?

Tom
Posted By: sparky Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 11:13 PM
http://www.aifittings.com/g_3.htm#GL50

is this is?
[Linked Image]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 11:22 PM
OK, that's what I had originally pictured... but I had assumed that the screw was to terminate a bonding jumper... not a "bond screw" per se...

So I'm back to being correct on my call to the AHJ...Whew! That's good!


A picture is worth a thousand words!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 11:27 PM
Good work! And I see that they call it "grounding" rather than "bonding".

Locknut (note: no lug):

[Linked Image from aifittings.com]

Bushing (has jumper lug):

[Linked Image from aifittings.com]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 11:38 PM
Bill,

Here's the question in question (that sounded funny...) from Mike's Coe Quiz...

Emphasis is mine for clarity...

2. 6. Service equipment, service raceways, and service conductor enclosures shall be bonded by ____________.

A. threaded raceways into enclosures, couplings, hubs, conduit bodies, etc

B. bonding-type locknuts can be used on raceway or connector terminations where concentric or eccentric knockouts are not encountered

C. service metal enclosures, raceways and cables can be bonded to the grounded (neutral) service conductor

D. all of these


I wasn't saying that the question was in error, it was worded to help support my own assumptions in my own mind, or something like that...

I think I'm clear on all this now...

Thanks once again guys...

I think Steve said in another post that ECN should count as CEU's... I'm in total agreement there!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-05-2001).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 11:46 PM
>bonding-type locknuts can be used on raceway or connector terminations where concentric or eccentric knockouts are not encountered

A set screw would probably push out the "pryouts".

-----

Standard locknut:

[Linked Image from aifittings.com]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/05/01 11:50 PM
Tom,
Yeah, I'm hoping in Charleston, Mo'town is quite a ways further...

Sylvan Tech is closed until Monday, so I don't know if/when they're giving the test yet...

I think I can lick the 1st one, but the general looks like a tuffy!

Found out today that the local AHJ is trying to handle the tri-county area alone!
There's plenty of room for "competition"...

Thanks Dspark, the pics have helped immensely.

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-05-2001).]
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/06/01 12:19 AM
Credit goes to sparky (from Vermont) for finding the Arlington website with pictures.
Posted By: sparky Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/06/01 12:44 AM
Dspark,
i just like to surf links...but i could not copy/ paste the pix, so your the man there !

Virgil,

who or what is 'Experior'?
are they a proctor for a IAEI exam?
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/06/01 12:55 AM
Experior is an organization that indeed gives tests, they handle the contractor's tests here in WV and they get the check.

They are somehow affiliated with the IAEI exams, but Sylvan Technology Learning Centers give the exams 'cuz they're on a 'puter.

That's how I've gathered it anyway...
Posted By: sparky Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/06/01 09:46 AM
well,it just sounds like the IAEI;
'one & two family dwellings' and 'inspector general' are two of the three current IAEI tests.

there are study guides for all 3..... http://www.iaei.com/productcatalog2001.pdf
note the 'one & two family book...
does this look familiar?
[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 07-06-2001).]
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/06/01 02:01 PM
Looks like the same to me!
Posted By: STEVE Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/16/01 02:40 AM
Good Luck on your exam,
I took the General exam a couple of years ago. I am going for the Plan Review exam in December, If I do well with that I'll give the One and two Family a shot.
Good Luck,
Steve T.


[This message has been edited by STEVE (edited 07-15-2001).]
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/16/01 02:55 AM
Virgil, ('66)

What are your plans if you pass the exam?
Are you going to try to get a job as an inspector? Can you contract at the same time?
If so, you couldn't inspect your own work, could you? [Linked Image]

I'm just curious, I don't know how that works. Tom?

[Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/16/01 03:39 AM
Study hard! Good Luck!

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 07-28-2001).]
Posted By: Tom Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/16/01 11:07 PM
Bill,

You're correct, you cannot inspect your own work or the work of anyone who works for you, your company, etc. So if Virgil ends up working for the same inspection agency that I do, I couldn't run down to Greenbrier County to get that reallly big fee from him when he puts in a 2000 amp service.

I hope he passes the tests, it is a great confidence builder. There is also a good chance that he could make more money inspecting than doing the work, judging what he says about working conditions at that end of the state.

Besides, when you're arguing with an appointed municipal inspector, it's nice to have credentials he doesn't.

Tom
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/28/01 06:08 AM
Update:

Been too busy to worry about it...

Haven't received the package from Experior either...

I do have the study guides, but I need to update my "library time" on them.

I need 48 hour days and a clone...

I hope to take the test in August or September.
Posted By: sparky Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/28/01 10:28 AM
if there ever is any human cloning, I'll betcha it'll be a contractor... [Linked Image]
Posted By: Frank Cinker Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/29/01 01:38 PM
Steve,

The "General" and in particular, the "Plan Review" Electrical Inspector examinations are more difficult than the "One and Two Family". You passed the General. You should have no difficulty passing the One and Two Family. The Plan Review is very difficult. Make certain you are fully prepared to take exam. Review sample questions over and over again. Good luck!
Posted By: sparky Re: Inspector's Exam - 07/29/01 08:21 PM
thanks,
i would most likley buy the book and bone up.
( my next book is Telsa though, for now..)
[Linked Image]
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