ECN Forum
Posted By: targetshootr old elec contr, new to forum - 05/02/03 10:52 PM
hello to all,

glad to have found this forum.

i'm 48, been in business 14 years now.

most of that time i've had as many as six fulltime people. at first it was fun. i didnt much care if i made anything, i was just glad i wasnt working for any of the lunatics i used to.

well the good times came and went when i realized most everyone will steal from you eventually. and a fair percentage of customers want you to do work with no intention of paying in full, if at all. and no matter what you do for an employee, its never enough. my motto became, 'no good deed ever goes unpunished'.

anyhow, in the last 18 months business has come to a halt. people still call but i rarely bother to answer the phone since i lost my best help in early 2002.

i think about starting back up but i seem to have lost all motivation. i really dont care if i ever crawl in another attic, hire or fire someone, have to sue someone, etc, etc.

has anyone else experienced such burnout. i'm thinking about changing occupations real soon if i can find something i enjoy.

thanks for letting me vent.
Posted By: wocolt Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/02/03 11:25 PM
Quote
has anyone else experienced such burnout. i'm thinking about changing occupations real soon if i can find something i enjoy

Yup.
Sometimes it just aint worth it and those times seem to be more frequent than not.
I remember an old saying. it goes : Be countientious, do a good job and you will get your reward,, Yeah right.. Non-payment, slow payment.. or " Oh and by the way we hired somebody else" or we stopped payment on your check.

Know exactly what you are saying.. maybe it time for the kool-ade
Wm.Colt
Posted By: Roger Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/02/03 11:43 PM
First of all welcome.

Yes, I have experienced exactly what you described. I think we each have different ways of overcoming it.

I didn't have the choice to get out and take a break so I just trudged along. I don't really know what happened but it just got better, even though the same problems were there. At the risk of sounding dramatic, don't let depression take over, if you must, by all means find something else to do or get help through friends, family, church, etc...

And you can always vent here. [Linked Image]

Roger
Posted By: sparky Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/02/03 11:46 PM
I hear ya targetshootr

My doors have been open over 5 yrs now, i've had a good winter depite it's harshness here.

I'm leapfroggin from one job to the next 6-7 days a week now, always on the go, always scoppin' out parts,plans& payments along the way.

pros and cons?

sure........, too bad someone hasn't kept an ongoing list in this forum because it's members have certianly touched on them all.

thing is, it's the only thing i know to keep the roof over my head, so out the door i go every morn.

attitude is everything......
Posted By: fla sparkey Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/02/03 11:47 PM
targetshootr:

Let me say I do understand where you are comming from. Although I have passed all the tests for a electrical contractor's license, I am still employed by somebody else. I have been doing this trade since 1990 and I have also lost interest through the years. So much so that I quit the company I currently work for about 2 years back and took a job with the local school board for a while. I really enjoyed that job, no overtime, no rush jobs, really friendly people to work for, great boss. Only problem was low pay, I was having trouble making ends meet. My old boss called me up and made me a good offer to come back to work for him. After thinking long and hard I decided to do it again. After learning from my mistakes things are going better this time around. I don't have to travel anymore for months on end, got a new service truck, and a raise. What I needed was a break, that's all. Although I am not an employer, as you are, I still see the same things that you probably do- unmotivated help, constant deadlines, and the unhappy customer. I went through 3 helpers in the first 6 months that I was back. The last one that I lost was one of the best guys in the company. I went to the boss and got him a raise to try and keep him on. The guy that works with me now is really motivated and wants to learn. He keeps asking me questions, which keeps me on my toes, and proves to me that he is interested, not just there for a paycheck like a lot of the others.

I know that you will be getting a lot of replies from many other people on this board. I have been on here for a little while and from what I read the guys here are a really caring bunch.

In answer to your question: yes. I think a lot of us have felt this way from time to time. You will have to make a decision for yourself if you will want to continue doing this line of work or to try something new. I have already read other posts on this board where people have made job changes and things have worked out for the better. The decision is yours to make, I think the only advice I can give you is to look at everything carefully and wish you luck. Keep in touch, and let us know what happens.

[This message has been edited by fla sparkey (edited 05-02-2003).]
Posted By: The Watt Doctor Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 12:07 AM
Shootr,
I can testify to a bad case of "stinkin' thinkin'". More importantly, I can testify to the fact that it can be overcome. I don't want to talk about me, because this thread is really about you, and hopefully the membership can encourage you to get up and move back into the place where you are the winner that you were born to be.
Check out this thread, and I'll post more later.
Click here

Sincerely,
Doc
Posted By: targetshootr Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 12:35 AM
thanks for all the replies so soon, and the link to doc's thread was enlightening.

i thought i was the only one who had been through the crapola that comes with electrical contracting.

i will heed all the wonderful advice and update you all once things start looking up.

i truly miss working but these days i look at every possible job as a trip straight back to all the bad things that have ever happened.
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 12:45 AM
Welcome targetshootr,I have problems with clinical depression at times, so far I've resisted medication. I went through one of the worst depressions of my life the last month or so. It seemed to be work related, or rather a lack of work.Some days all I wanted to do was stay in bed.Financial situation was bad and getting worse. Gradually,things are looking up. Still borrowing from Peter to pay Paul,but it's getting better. Thought about another line of work,butdecided to stick it out,and am glad I did. Why not try working solo for awhile? Service calls and small jobs you can do yourself maybe. In any event find something that makes you happy,be it electrical or diggin' ditches.The folks here at this forum will offer encouragement and help,I know, they've done it for me. Russell
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 12:51 AM
Shootr,

Welcome to ECN!
You're going to find that you're not alone, not by a longshot!

Do me a favor though, ... don't call yourself old!
I've got my reasons, if you know what I mean.

[Linked Image]
Bill
Posted By: sparky Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 01:30 AM
2nd that (i forgot my manners) [Linked Image]

so is it the 'dealing with people' end targetshootr?

i've tried hard to cultivate that aspect to some professional level, but find myself simply hiding behind a plastic smile quite often

i hear many end up crappin' blood that way?!
Posted By: LK Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 04:32 AM
We were all there. When I ran into this problem I went to another electrical contractor that was sucessful. The advice he gave was intresting. First he said, What type of contract do you use. I told him sometimes none and when i used one it was the one bought at the office supply. He recommended using a legally binding contract.
What an improvement this made in qualifing customers. No contract No work. and stick to it. Second he asked what my markup was, and i
told him. He recommended 100 and 50 percent. Well everyone elese in the area is 50 percent I would not have any work. I told him this was impossible and no one would pay that. He said that his percentage was higher and he turns work away. So I tried 75 percent
and things got better. It seams if you increase your rates, not only can you pay your bills but you attact better customers.
Now my rate is up there and it helps.
We were all there.
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 10:52 AM
Phase three burnout is not so bad, but look out for phase four. [Linked Image] Seriously I have been in business for 9 years. I have thought about throwing in the towel a few times, even gone for job interviews. What I do to stay sane is just say no. I work alone, I take on only the work I can handle, I charge a fairly high rate to weed out the yucky jobs as much as possible, and I work FIVE days a week. No faster way to burnout than a bunch of no good employees and to be "runnin around puttin out fires". Life is way to short (especially for you older guys [Linked Image] ) Still get crazy some times but in the end I can get in my car and take the kids to the beach any summer day I want or go out and build a snowman on a nice snowday! That type of freedom makes it all worthwile!

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 05-03-2003).]
Posted By: wocolt Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 03:01 PM
Thank You, 'ElectricmanScott',
You just made my day.

Wm.Colt
Posted By: dana1028 Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 06:36 PM
I'd like to repeat LKs reply. You start with a strong legally binding contract and add to it.
Every time I get burned I review what went wrong - was it my fault, something I overlooked or something that should have been clarified up front?....it gets added to the contract...I have a whole page of various 'as applicable' sections that get checked off and initialed by the customer. When I go out to check a potential job I start checking off those 'as applicable' sections I see.

Bad neighborhood where your tools might get ripped off? I check the box that says I will park my vehicle inside their garage! The customer promises to clear the area in front of your work space - 'customer will clear space three feet in all directions around designated work space before the commencement of electrical work. Customer's failure to have workspace clear will cause the rescheduling or work. There will be a charge of 8 hrs. labor for ______ men at a rate of $______ per man hour.' etc., etc.
You get the idea. I too have raised my price and I don't give free written estimates. Yes I've lost some work - but only to those who would have 'ruined my day' anyway.
Posted By: LK Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/03/03 11:32 PM
Thank You, DANA The clean out work area is something I forgot to put in the contract.
The last three jobs had about four feet of junk piled in front of the panel.
Targetshooter take your time, and get your contract updated first. The money end will depend on your area and the eco conditions.



[This message has been edited by LK (edited 05-03-2003).]
Posted By: dougwells Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/04/03 12:00 AM
I have been an EC for 8 years and am still trying to build up a business between yellows pages phone cel bonding pager liability we have been subsidising these expenses with direct to home satellite installations i know there are threads relating to contract, work orders ,and material templates as a software program may be to expensive for us and we only have had our first computer for about 5 months and it is only a p150 so i dont think i would have the required systems resourses any help obtaining some templates would be very helpful and appreciated by the way iam 46 and only need basic templates as we do residential upgrades and reno work etc

[This message has been edited by dougwells (edited 05-03-2003).]
Posted By: mlk682 Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/04/03 03:55 PM
Clean your truck,update your contract and start fresh. My opinion is STAY SMALL. Just you and maybe a partner. I have been working for a good friend for the last year. We have had steady work, but we also have a bunch of no pays. We run into the same things as you. We have put in the hours and expect to get paid for them and people just scoff I try to always do the best job I could RE (SPENDING ADDITIONAL TIME NEEDED). Last month we had 20,000 owed out on the books and I didnt receive a paycheck. I just received an offer yesterday for another position doing industrial maintenance. I hate to say it but I am jumping ship. I think my partner could work a lot better without the liability of my payroll. We have been screwed by fly by night contractors and even lil ol ladys. I am glad to see its not just us, But I think there is light at the end of the tunnel.Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and Start all over again. I sincerely wish you well.
Posted By: nesparky Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/04/03 08:25 PM
Targetshooter
Just adding my note
Am going thru the same B/S. Just told a customer for whom I did several jobs in the past to forget it. Now he has a contract that does not allow me to send a bill for 45 days then he will take 45 days to pay and wants a full lien waver before the first bill is presented. Just said good by to him.
We all go thru these problems. Get a good contract and be in the upper 1/3 of the rates in your area. You will get calls- some will run off when they see your contract or billing rates. Those will be 80% of the jerks you do not want any way. The rest of the callers will at least be serious callers. You may not win a bid but when you do at least you will get paid.
Good Luck
Posted By: wayne Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/04/03 10:23 PM
Hi Target Shooter,

Welcome to the forum, I myself can relate to some of your dissappointments. I am sure all the guys here would agree with me when I say in this line of work We are going to have a lot of ups and downs. How we handle them is what counts. However there is a lot of good advice given here.
I am a Electrical and Plumbing Contractor and I know first hand how a person can get down/burn out with all of what is going on.
You said you were 48, We'll I am just a head of you 50. And now that I have turnesd 50 I can REALLY enjoy working for myself andand others and enjoy living.
Sometimes in lifes dissappointments we have to take a step back and see where we are in life, and where we are headed and decide where we want to go, NOT where Business or people want to go, But US you and I.
The best advice I can give you is to ask God to help you resolve this. I don't want to sound like a preacher, Cause I'am Not, or do I want to preach to you. I am only sharing testimony in my life what has happen.
I asked God to help me in my work and health, I set my business up So I would be working for the Lord. When God is for you, No one is against you. It is great having the best boss in the world and their are no problems that my boss cann't handle and resolve. When a situlation occurs I pray and turn it over to him, its great. He takes care of everything. Sure there are man made problems that will happen,if and when they do he handles it for me, thank the Lord.
I asked for his guidence and direction. Since the first of January to date, I not only have work going on I now have 2 full time employes and one part time secretary. I am now also DEBT FREE< THANK THE LORD.
I like the rest will help you in any way I can. Be patient. We all share some of the same experences, We just choose different paths and we are on different journeys.
God Bless you and good luck.
Later
wayne
Posted By: targetshootr Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/04/03 10:25 PM
you guys are good. wish i'd found this forum before.

most of the reasons i'm in the state i'm in are my own fault. i never knew much about how to run a business, still dont really, and its cost me a fortune.

but with the things i'm learning here i can change that.

what really gets to me are the customers/contractors who make a living abusing sub-contractors. when one wises up, they find another one to work over.

i just hope that what goes around, comes around for them.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/05/03 07:05 AM
Targetshooter,
I certainly agree with your last line, there
mate!!.
Have one person not pay you and the apple cart gets upset, have a whole heap of people not pay you and it can damn near kill you.
Hang in there, mate, things WILL get better! [Linked Image]
Posted By: Electric Eagle Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/05/03 10:17 PM
Hang in there. We're all in the same boat.

Recently I've been burning through emplyoyees like crazy. I had to fired one guy because he stunk, litterally. I fired another guy because he had too many personal problems that were becoming my problems, putting me in a bind. One guy quit because he couldn't stand his lead man and another quit because he lost his car insurance(DUI) and could risk driving 45 minutes to work. I Had to fire a temp/sub/casual labor guy because he got in a fist fight on the job with another employee(also his brother).

Last week I was making up work for the guys to do so they could get 40 hours, now we're slammed for the next 2 weeks. Everybody wants us at the same time.

There's something to be said for just getting 1 good helper and selecting the customers you want to work for. For now though, I'm trying for something a little bigger. I can tell you that my income went up 25% when I quit working on weekends and it doubled when I added my first employee. However, my overhead has now reached a level that has stalled my income and I have to grow the business if I want my income to go up. If my income doesn't go up, then I would rather downsize to get rid of a lot of headaches and overhead since my income would stay about the same.

Good luck and hang in there.
Posted By: The Watt Doctor Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/14/03 01:48 AM
I haven't forgotten about you shooter. Over the course of the last few days and weeks, I've thought about you much. I don't know every detail that lead up to the thread that you started. I just know that life in the worst circumstances is good, and I want to encourage you fix your eyes on a goal and head for it. Those old rascals that did you wrong should be whipped for it, but I think the most important thing is not what they've done to you. The most important thing is, what you've done to them. At the end of your life, you'll be able to say, "I did what was right." That my dear friend means a lot. The above may not be much consolation, but I hope that you can find some hope in it.

For every problem under the sun...
There is an answer, or there is none...
If there is, seek 'til you find it...
If there isn't, then never mind it...

Go out and bust a few caps,
Doc
Posted By: targetshootr Re: old elec contr, new to forum - 05/14/03 02:44 AM
thanks doc. and everyone.

after a lot of pondering it looks like i'll go back to work eventually.
i think one reason i bottomed out is because i'm single. without any daily support its easy to get overwhelmed and start feeling hopeless. if i change careers i'd probably have the same problems as i do now.

meanwhile, i'm selling off some property to get out of debt and take some time off. maybe i'll even scare-up a nice lady one day.
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