Does anyone know of a Life Safety code that would require battery backed egress lighting to be installed in restrooms? Do most of you install them in restrooms? I am just wondering if we do it just as a good idea?? Thanks

700.16 (all required means of egress lighting,) I'd say finding your way out of a strange restroom, during a emergency, in the dark, is a life safety issue.

Russ

RussM:
The way I understand the question of this thread is "are emergency light units REQUIRED in restrooms, and if so, what is the "Code Reference".

IMHO, the NEC does not specify the locations of exit and emergency lighting units, only the wiring and circuitry procedures for the units. The "placement" of exit/em. lts is determined by the Fire Official. (or the architect/engineer; subject to approvals during plan review by the Fire Official.

In this area, some localities require em ltg in rest rooms, some do not. We have em ltg in small retail restrooms, but not in large office buildings...

John

If I may jump in here,John and or Russ m, if you were doing a job where there was no inspection and the responsility was on you to do it right,would you put them in to cya? Reason for no inspect is there's not one in my county. Russell

Russell,

As a CYA I think that it would be best if you familiarized yourself with the State adopted Building and Fire Codes. I am not very familiar with mine, but luckily my Inspector is, so I have some help being compliant. I doubt that no inspections is any legal excuse for not knowing and following the codes.

Bill

Thanks Bill I'll do that.

Don't have the reference handy now, but in 1990 in an Indiana Bldg Dept Q&A newsletter a question was asked (paraphrasing)
Q - " In areas where there is not a Building Department, ie. no inspections, is the installer required to abide by the electrical code?"

Again paraphrasing,

A - " All electrical installations in Indiana to be installed per the Indiana Electrical Code (IEC)."

In my estimation, There is a lot of IEC violations ' out there '.

Gwz,

Thanks for the paraphrased confirmation on that. After seeing some recent presentations based on some legal issues that Contractors should be aware of, and how Ins. Co. Fire Investigators work with Lawyers I'm convinced that we all should be examining some things more closely. In basic terms, one thing I got out of it is that ignorance of the Laws and Codes is no excuse for a Contractor. They should know better and will be held responsible if something happens.

It makes answering the phone more dangerous every day.

Bill

NFPA 101 (Life Safety Code) is broken up into types of occupancy. What type are you talking about?

Gentlemen:
Let me add a little:
For "most" of our regular clients, the installation of "additional" em lights is a normal thing, as they have concerns about safety. However, the units are "additional" and are not "code required".
I had an instance where we had to install an em pack at the outside of a small retail store in a shop. ctr. The property manager balked at the requirement, and went to the Fire AHJ. That resulted in having to install two (2) exterior units, 1 in the restroom, and two additional exit units. The AHJ cited the "fire code" and that was that. I did not inquire as to what chapter and verse, but when I talk to that AHJ again, I'll inquire.

Additional units must conform to NEC requirements, require permits and inspection, and have to be maintained. It's always good to CYA.
John

CYA??????

Yes is is good to CYA ( cover your a**). The biggest problem is when you do this too much you loose the bid to a low ball artist.

John:
Your right . I've read the beging of Article 700, and found out thats the one thing it doesn't say.
EM lighting is not a NEC requirement.
But I have to conclude,if emergency lighting is required by some authority, then it would be required in all areas of a building, not just the biggest portions.

My point with the first reply was that you have to be able to see with some minimal amount of light everywhere for purposes of exiting, when EM lighting is required.

Russ
PS I check with our fire chief to see what he says.

[This message has been edited by russ m (edited 04-28-2003).]

I was not able to find restrooms in the listings of areas requiring egress or emergency lighting.

NFPA 101
7.8 Illumination of Means of Egress.
7.8.1 General.
7.8.1.1* Illumination of means of egress shall be provided in accordance with Section 7.8 for every building and structure where required in Chapter 11 through Chapter 42. For the purposes of this requirement, exit access shall include only designated stairs, aisles, corridors, ramps, escalators, and passageways leading to an exit. For the purposes of this requirement, exit discharge shall include only designated stairs, aisles, corridors, ramps, escalators, walkways, and exit passageways leading to a public way.

7.9 Emergency Lighting.
7.9.1 General.
7.9.1.1* Emergency lighting facilities for means of egress shall be provided in accordance with Section 7.9 for the following:
(1) Buildings or structures where required in Chapter 11 through Chapter 42
(2) Underground and limited access structures as addressed in Section 11.7
(3) High-rise buildings as required by other sections of this Code
(4) Doors equipped with delayed-egress locks
(5) Stair shaft and vestibule of smokeproof enclosures, for which the following also apply:
(a) The stair shaft and vestibule shall be permitted to include a standby generator that is installed for the smokeproof enclosure mechanical ventilation equipment.
(b) The standby generator shall be permitted to be used for the stair shaft and vestibule emergency lighting power supply.
7.9.1.2 For the purposes of 7.9.1.1, exit access shall include only designated stairs, aisles, corridors, ramps, escalators, and passageways leading to an exit. For the purposes of 7.9.1.1, exit discharge shall include only designated stairs, ramps, aisles, walkways, and escalators leading to a public way.

Russ:
Ron said most or all of it above.
Basically, the "approved" egress path must have exit signs (w/back-up illumination) and emergency lighting. That is usually what is required. That is usually why there is not a required exit unit in every office room of a office building.

Thanks to Ron for the above text, I have to copy it.

(edited)
Food for thought: some jurisdictions (California) are requiring a "master/slave" exit unit. THe master being over the door, and the slave being mounted close to the floor. This provides directional guidance in a smoke condition. There also is a illuminated "guide rail" set-up, like a glow stick thing (may be fiber optic) that is mounted low to guide you as you are crawling.

John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 04-29-2003).]

Keep in mind that marking of the exit (exit signs) is in addition to the articles quoted in my previous post.