Hello from South Dakota!!!

I need some help with a small code problem.
For some reason I have it stuck in my mind that whenever you install drop in troupher style flourescent fixtures, they need to be independently supported from the grid.

I have looked and looked but no luck. Is this a figment of my imagination, or am I missing something?

Any help Please!

Thanks, Jon

Did you come from MA, Because that is a requirement here.

2002 MEC

410.16(C) Add a second paragraph as follows

NJElectricmaster:
The NEC requires fixtures to be attached to the grid by screws, clips, or other approved means. In most locations in NJ, the fixtures are independently supported from the structure via diagonal ceiling wire.
Don't feel bad, this is a common question around here. Sparkies not familiar with the "local" AHJ usually ask..."screw/clip" "tie-wire" or "both"???
The Fire sub-code requires the independent support of the fixtures. The reasons that I've heard are to prevent the fixtues from coming down if the firemen rip the grid.

How about is Don....any comments?????

John

Hello from South Dakota!!!

iwire, I am from Colorado, and I knew we had to do it there. I just can't find it in the NEC.

Thanks, Jon

John,
It is in a number of building codes to prevent the fixtures from falling when the grid is damaged. It could help prevent them from falling under fire conditions, but even with independent tie wires, I doubt that they will stay when hit with a fire stream flowing almost 1 ton of water per minute.
Don

You will not find it in the NEC. If it exists, it is a local modification of the building code.
Also, many engineers specify it, whether it is code minimum or not.

Hey guys, Thanks for all the responses. I knew I had seen that rule before I was just not sure it was code!

I really do love this site!

thanks again, Jon

I try to secure at least the 2 corners diagonally across from one another. And put ties from the ceiling or structure above to the fixture, in addition to the clips that come with the fixture. All wiring must be supported independent of the grid also.

Jon:
I do a lot of commercial work and what most inspectors have me do if I install grid wire for fixture or flex whip supports is to identify it either by painting it or phase tape. That way they can see that I installed it and I am not using any existing wire. Being I sometimes work in different parts of the state, I usually check with the inspector when he gives me an underground or wall rough on what he wants done with the fixtures. Saves a lot of hassle later down the road and promotes good relations too.

So you don't have earthquakes in Illinois?
So CA, basically 2 wires on diagonal ends of the 2X4 or 2X2 lay-in. Screwed to the grid on the opposing corners. Lost Angeles has some jurisdictions with 4 wires, 4 screws..weeding them out is tough...S

Here in NJ the NEC says (as John pointed out.) You can use any UL listed method. However As an AHJ I would have to allow that, but the building inspector usually makes the ceiling installer support the whole light fixture and track indepently supported. In other words, if the electrical AHJ doesn't get you, the building AHJ will.

Hello from South Dakota!!!

When I was still living in Colorado, all the ahj's wanted four wires to support the fixture seperatly from the grid. Now I have entered the "Twilight Zone" when it comes to code.

We have to take a test for the JW licence, but after that !!WHO CARES!!. I have heard the phrase "What Code?" more times since I moved here than I ever thought I could.

Now when I point out that something is not code, my new employer just says 'thats OK, the inspector is my friend', or 'we don't get inspected so it doesn't matter.'

MAN AM I FRUSTERATED!!!!!

I did go back to the job I was on and tie the fixtures up anyway, just so I would sleep better!

Jon

Jon,

I rather imagine it'll be like the E2 nightclub in Chicago or that fire in NJ ?

When someone get hurt because of the poor installation ( code violation's ) then everyone whoever worked in/on the building will be investigated.

Some-one is going to pay the piper.

Seems as though many installers, inspectors, owners, gamble that it won't happen to them.

Another problem is, an inspector just cannot look at everything, for instance, the inspector would have to be on both ends of a cable pull, and that would be on every electrical installation that day!

The installer, beit the electrical or the general contractor, must be responsible for their site.

Been on some multiple occupancies buildings lately and on every building the GC starts covering 300.21. Tomorrow I'll be inspecting a section of wall for 300.21, after the drywall is removed, hopefully today.

This is the 10th building of 12 such buildings, at least 70 " Party" fire walls so far.

The way I look at such practices, There should be at least 6 different persons involved for these installations. The Electrical contractor, the Electrical inspector, the General Contractor, the Building inspector, the Insulator and the Drywaller.

Each one should know when Fire Wall penetrations are violations.