The "pay for road trips" thread got me thinking about this.

When I worked for other contractors they used to pay us from the time we started loading the truck in the morning until the time we loaded it back up at the job site, but not for the drive home. I was always fine with this practice.

Now, for the past few years I've paid my workers the same way, except for long drives, which I do pay. Recently I've been getting some complaints and stretching of hours over this, mainly from some new guys. I do see their point and probably will start paying for all drive time, but I want to see what other here have experienced.

Do you get paid for all driving? Or if you're the boss, do you pay for all driving?

By the way, I don't let them take home trucks, so they do have to drive back to the shop.

In MA if I have them meet me at the shop I the company is obligated to pay for all travel.

So we meet at the job, this means 8 hrs at the job, they get milage after a certain distance.

If a guy wants to save his gas and ride with me in the company truck thats great, but one complant about not being on the clock (I'am not) and they are back in their car.


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 03-17-2003).]

Eagle,I worked for several years for a contractor in Gainesville. He paid for 1 way driving time and it always seemed fair to me.On Fridays,if your truck was dirty and disorganized,you had to clean it before he would pay you.We soon learned to spend a few minutes every day to keep things straight! We pay our 2 helpers 1 way.Of course we seldom drive more than 20 or 30 min to a job.

Again Electrical contractors great at what they know best electrical work but when it comes to business, bad moves. If your employee is driving back from a job and is off the payroll and gets in an accident you have big problems. say good bye to your business. The 8 hour day includes travel time

We have always paid travel both ways. Shop to shop. However, this is the exception in this area, rather than the rule.

It's just one of the small things we do to keep the help happy. We have a very small turnover rate.

GJ

Think of any large construction project all the workers find there own way to work and back and 8 hours is "on the job" no travel time, real problems come if you send them to the supply house in their own car while on company time.

When they ride with me off the clock but in a company truck, yes we are still responsible for them, but no chance of losing the company.

The company I work for is large, 200-300 guys out of our shop, our jobs are 30-90 minutes from the shop we could never waste travel time each day for each employee, we would be out of business.

When I worked for smaller companies we did the one way travel thing too, and I understand each area is going to do things differently.

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 03-18-2003).]

For us, it was on the job for 8 hr.
Only the one that drove the truck got the O.T.

I, for one, would love to hear the ambulance chasers story....
" I was on my way to work and got in an accedent"

how does that make the CO. liable????

I have a freind that rights off all the milage... I dont know it its leagal... but his reply to that would be..." If i cant take mass transit, then I am required to have a car... If I am required to have a car... its deductable.... same as a uniform.. Any thing required and not payed for is deductable!!!!!"

more opinons please!



[This message has been edited by RandyO (edited 03-18-2003).]

RandyO ---

Milage from home to your first stop and from your last stop to home is NOT deductable. Other milage on your job is.

If your business is in your home, all of your milage on business is deductable.

We do not pay drive time at all to and from the job. Obviously if they report to one job and you send them to another you then pay the drive time for that. This is very rarely done and usually only in the case of an emergency. With an average of 1200 electricians working for us at any given time paying drive time would surly be the death of the company. I do get paid some drive time occasionally. If I need to go into the shop to get something I get paid for the drive back to the job. Or when I am doing a couple of small jobs rather than one big one I have to bounce around some and that windshield time is paid too. The general rule, like iwire, is all employees report directly to the job on there own time.

George,
I wrote off mileage to and from work for a number of years. My tax lady said I could and it has to do with being classified as a temporary employee. Even though I have been with the same shop for ten years I am still referred from a union hall and classified as temporary as far as the IRS is concerned. I am no tax expert but that’s how we did it. I lost that right off about 5 years ago when I got a company truck to drive home. It hurts at tax time but overall I am better off. Last weekend the fuel pump went out. Got a ride to work and called the company mechanic. When I got home, it was fixed. Can’t beet that!

Jimmy and I do anywhere between 1 and 3 hours of windshield time per day. I actually feel guilty for not paying him for this time, but I'd have to knock him down to $6.25 an hour to afford it. That's a $3.75 cut, by the way... (numbers really calculated, not BSed)

As it is, I pay him bonuses when I can (when we come in under time) and there are other benefits, such as my willingness to teach and patience (sometimes) to understand. The way he's learning, I'd be more than happy to make him VP when the biz gets big enough to need one. </digress>

Wish I could afford to pay him good wages for all of his time.





[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 03-18-2003).]

I do mostly service/warranty work.(but I'm the only guy with a Co. truck). Shop of about 30 guys.
I'm payed from when I get to the shop until I leave the shop. The company truck is in the shop, I don't take it home (I refused that 'cause I don't have the room for it).
If someone has to use their own vehicle for company use, they're payed 28.5 cents per mile. This is for the PM, secretary, and my backup guy (when I'm buried)Only!
The rest of the crew are expected to show up on the job at start time, and leave at quitting time... Same as if they worked for anybody else.
We never allow employees to go get materials.
As a matter of fact, during their breaks they cannot leave the job, because they are on the clock...lunch is different, they are off the clock, and we are not liable for their actions.
Be careful!! If these guys are on the clock, the liability for their "beer drinkin' crack smokin'" could eventually fall on the contractor...S

Well, after reading your responses I don't feel so bad for the way I've been paying my guys. Even without the return drive time, they usually get 45-50 hours. I do kind of feel bad if a job is near a guys house, but he has to drive 35 minutes back to the shop and then go home.

Our company found out the hard way.By law if an employee has to report to a shop then drive to a job,he is to get paid driving time.If he is to drive from his home to a job site,no driving time pay. This is law .They ended up having to go back 1.5 years and pay all back driving time.Can of worms opened

What if you pick up your helper on the way to the job site?

This is a question of fairness. As an employeer you control where the employees work.

If an employee lives 50 miles from my shop, that is his choice.

If the employee lives 50 miles from a job site, that is my choice.

I would net each employee's mileage to the shop against that to the job site and settle once a month. $.36 a mile is $18/hr at 50mph. That might be reasonable.

The fair answer and legal answer at least around here is simply to pay the employee from the start to the end of the work day. If you require your employees to report to the shop at the start of the day that is when the pay starts. Same thing for reporting back to the shop at the end of the day.
If the employee goes from job to job, it is paid time. If the employee goes to the supply house, it is paid time.
If the employee reports to the job site and goes home from the job site, no pay is due.
If you pick up some one to go to the site ask why you are doing so. If it is a convience to them treat it the same way a group of carpoolers at an office does, no pay to get to work. If it is because only company trucks are allowed on a job site with parking for personel vehicles not availble or far away, the clock starts upon pick up.
One company around here tried to have different pay rates for driving time vs work time. The DOL made them pay the difference for 3 years. Then they were barred from federal and state contracts. Since those contracts were 85% of thier work, they are no longer in business.
Keep careful records, When the DOL or some other legal agency looks thru your payroll records, they are usually 6 months to 2 years after the fact. It can be and is a real pain in the a**. Your memory of the job is not acceptable to them.

Good luck to all

I like to say thay mine is an equal partnership- he finds the work, I do it!
Being so close to the "sharp end of the stick," I keep in mind that you can't always charge the customer for your "support" time. If I do several small jobs in a day, I may have to put in 11 hours in order to bill for 8. That's the nature of a small business.
It's also something to consider in setting your "hourly rate." The customer would rather pay $60 for an hour of you actually working, than $60 for an hour of work and an hour of going to the parts house, etc (at $30/hr.)

If the employee is driving a company truck he is covered for medical under your comp insurance. This means you must pay him when he gets in the truck not when he gets to the job. When you get your insurance audit like the gent in the previous post said. they can go back a few years and you will pay the back pay plus get a new rating with much higher insurance payments.

Good subject. Every person I've seen with our company drives there own car (this includes Jouneyman). This is very unfair to all of us. Heck, we kick out 10-15 bucks every two days for gas, and we are also putting massive miles on our own automobile. Not to mention the fact that our cars have been broken into. Heck, I think every employer should pay the miles, or give-out the company vans.

Almost all employeers try to limit costs. Truck and time cost money. To pay for thise items our billing rates have to pay for all our costs. Payroll, taxes, social security matching, insurance, vehicles, equipment, tools, as well as materials used. Travel time can be very expensive. When on out of normal area jobs ( more than about 75 or so miles away) you have things like hotels and meals.
If you do not cover these items, your company will go belly up.
If you get spendy and try to raise your rates too much - your competion will get more of your work. Then you downsize you company and lose good employees.
All I ask is a fair days work for a fair days pay. If some one can not get to work on thier own, I can not use him/her.

I would have to agree with nesparky, when you take a job in construction you must already know we go to the work, The company I work for pays mileage after 40 miles from your house.

Not a bad deal but as always some guys take advantage ride together and put in separate bills, this makes it harder for the honest folks because the paper work had to get more complicated to keep the double or triple billing from happening.

Yes you mileage on your car goes up, but company trucks for all is never going to happen.