ECN Forum
Posted By: nichols questions - 01/15/03 12:25 AM
I have a question... I want to ask this before i toss these things.. I was recently on a site and one of the electricians was on my rear from the start.. I pulled out my modified extension cords and he totally tore me a new one, told me I'd burn the whole place down if I plug'd in my contraptions.. I just want to hear from you guys what you think.. Was this guy just being a a$$ to me or what.. I took some Heavy Duty SJOOW Power Cable I got from a local hardware store.. it was 10AWG, 104 x 30 ga. Construction Current Rating of 30Amps .. took a double gang box, put two outlets in there pigtail'd it to a wire nut where it connected to the stranded wire. I used electrical tape around each outlet and even around the wire nut.. That guy tore open my little boxes and tore them apart and told me to get them off his site and go buy a real extension cord.. Was he in the right to destroy those cords? Where the a fire hazard?

Thanks for the input
nichols
Posted By: jdevlin Re: questions - 01/15/03 12:35 AM
His site his rules.
Posted By: nichols Re: questions - 01/15/03 12:45 AM
Actually no offense, hes an electrician, not the general contractor.. What does he have a say in what power cords I use? All i wanted to know if it actually is against NEC code to do that ?!?!
Posted By: iwire Re: questions - 01/15/03 12:55 AM
sounds like OSHA assured grounding program

The company I work for will send one of us around the job to check cords and if they look bad they tell us to cut them up, I will not cut them, but I ask them to get it off the site.

I do not know what gives us the right to do this but nobody gets too upset if the cords bad.

What kind of 2 gang box, I think it would have to be a threaded hub box with proper strain relief. I would have asked you to remove the cord in a nice way.

Where I work we never make cords, we always buy cords with our company name embossed on the cord right along with the normal info.

This makes it easy to bag people trying to take them, but the least little damage and we send them back to the shop and they are thrown out.

We also keep plenty of GFI 3 way pigtails in the gang box.

On the jobs we work the GC usally has a safety officer and this prevents him from bugging us.

And if there is an OSHA inspection it looks good.

For us it is cost effective, no fines.



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 01-14-2003).]
Posted By: lighthouse Re: questions - 01/15/03 01:20 AM
nichols...what type of box (metal or a weatherproof box and cover.did it have a gfci receptacle in it.if wp was the connector and plug wp too. i see nothing wrong with the heavyduty cord.

iwire...where did you buy your ext cords with your co name on it.
Posted By: iwire Re: questions - 01/15/03 01:27 AM
I call the warehouse and ask for more, sorry I do not know, I will ask the purchasing guy if you are interested.

I know we buy them in large lots, as we have cases of them at the warehouse.
Posted By: maintenanceguy Re: questions - 01/15/03 02:00 AM
"The Rules" only offer one way to be safe. There are an infinate number of ways to be safe and still be outside of the rules.

I don't know if your extension cords were safe for what you were doing or not, probably safer than half the wiring found in houses in America.

My issue is with a guy who thinks he can damage my stuff because he doesn't like it. I am certain that he wouldn't have had much luck tearing apart my stuff.
Posted By: Nick Re: questions - 01/15/03 02:22 AM
Those homemade cords you describe utilize a box that is not being used per its listing. It was designed to be permanently installed to a structure. This is why it is an OSHA violation to use them as I understand it. Was it dangerous? Probably not. Did he have a right to do that to your stuff? I doubt it.

IWIRE, my company has been doing that with cords for a long time too. Isn’t it great to see the look on there face when you take it back! I took one back a few years ago from a drywaller that had been carrying it around for a couple of years! (according to him) He was so mad I thought he was going to blow a gasket. [Linked Image] Not much to say about it when you show them your company name on it!
Nick
Posted By: iwire Re: questions - 01/15/03 02:35 AM
Yeah it is fun, Nick

We also barter them for stuff from other trades, so many times they have had it for a while.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: questions - 01/15/03 03:44 AM
I thought I read a recent post on this forum or the NEC forum which provided an OSHA link that stated the electrical contractor is required to inspect the cordsets of all the trades at the jobsite on a daily basis or install GFCI protection. Was there GFCI protection? Still, I don't agree with the guy being a jerk.
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: questions - 01/15/03 06:22 AM
Nichols

Was this some flexible cord running into a handi-box? The four by four rounded-corner box that you put up to two duplex receptacles in it?

If that's what it is, then you are not using that box in a manner it was designed for. The knockouts on the box can break off and expose live current carrying parts, and if you drop the box and the plastic faces of the receptacles shatter, you can also expose yourself to danger.

I think the electrician was (in a not so tactful way) looking out for your safety.

However I disagree with him ripping your stuff up like that. He could have told you politely that such a contraption is not safe and not appropriate (and could expose you to problems with OSHA since they frown upon these things because of the obvious dangers).

There was a whole discussion on these things in one of Joe Tedesco's forums (where he was fuming mad, and rightfully so, about one he was given to use at a hotel).

This item was a real doozy, with the screws holding the outlets to the cover plate missing, one receptacle face was cracked and the "strain relief" had popped out of the box knockout. [Linked Image]

Unfortunately it's been removed or something - I wanted to link to it. I can't find it. [Linked Image]
Posted By: caselec Re: questions - 01/15/03 06:33 AM
Brian, I think this is the one you are thinking about https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000350.html . If you didn't get a chance yet to read OSHA Professor's post you should since he helped clear up what the electrical contractors responsibility was.

Curt
Posted By: nichols Re: questions - 01/15/03 08:36 AM
It had a strain relief on it.. it wasnt one of those handy boxes.. it was a solid metal box, with one hole in the side where that strain relief went, to be honest I saw the box similar to this one i was using on a previous site and thought it looked alittle better than the stupid extension cords we were carrying around, all the thing was used for was a dremel , a cordless drill charger, and a wakie talkie charger.. I had it glued to a piece of wood that held the chargers.. it had one GFCI on it.. I was just wondering if I was in the wrong with it, if not I was going to replace it.. He tore it up pretty bad or i would take a picture and show you guys..

thanks..
Posted By: Trainwire Re: questions - 01/15/03 11:39 AM
I think I understand what he what doing, but I don't think he had a right to do it in the way he did. He actually did harm to his cause by doing it the way he did.

He would have been much further ahead to quietly explain to you the problems he had with your cords, and give you the opportunity to bring something else the next day.

It makes me think about how I present my point of view of things. How to get my point across without being labelled. I've been brought up short a time or two here in this forum, and I think that is good.

TW
Posted By: nichols Re: questions - 01/15/03 12:10 PM
Well can you tell me so I can at least approach this guy? He seems to have a major problem with us low-volts. Thats what he was muttering the whole time he was tearing apart my board. I want to know if there is something against NEC or OESHA codes.. According to my office there isnt and they want to submit him a bill.. So could someone tell me yea or nay? I dont want this guy in any trouble over this unless he really has a beef with us low volts..

(BTW, I am going to ask my teacher at class about this, i am doing my apret. classes..)

thanks
nichols
Posted By: sparky Re: questions - 01/15/03 12:26 PM
is it this particular modification in question, or ALL x-cord modifications that would be a no-no??
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: questions - 01/15/03 01:06 PM
Nichols,

You mentioned
Quote
.. it had one GFCI on it..
Was the GFCI you are referring to in the box that you built? If the GFCI is a standard $7.00 unit one mounts in a outlet at the kitchen counter, then there is a lack of protection. The standard GFCI won't default to tripped state if the power is lost or the continuity of the neutral is broken.

Al
Posted By: George Re: questions - 01/15/03 03:50 PM
nichols ---

Whether or not the device is code compliant or not, your device should not have been damaged.

If you are mad, bill the electrician, and then sue him in court to collet.

Win or lose he will realize his behavior will cost him money.

-------

Is it legal?

There was a thread about building a movable kitchen island with outlets connected to power thru a plug into a wall outlet. No one claimed that "extension cord" was not legal.

There are UL listed extension cords that look much like what you have, several standard recepts in a plastic box.
Posted By: Pearlfish Re: questions - 01/15/03 06:58 PM
Nichols, Just a few more questions, so we can understand everyones position on this.

1. Was this a union jobsite?

2. Are you a union contractor?

3. Did the electricion whom you refer to identify himself as a union rep. or as a safety officer?

4. Has your supervisor explained to you the terms of your companies contract and defined your scope of work at this jobsite?

I have worn many hats over the years and have seen situations as you describe many times. If this was a union jobsite and you are a non-union contractor doing work that has been exempted from a contract. Than be relieved that your extension cord was the only thing damaged. I am not saying this is right or wrong, however this is what its like working with the big boys.

Instead of going back to your teacher and complaining, you should tell him that you had a new learning experience.
Posted By: iwire Re: questions - 01/15/03 07:43 PM
I would forget about the money, keep the home made cords for home.

If it is a good size job, your company's contract probably has something about complying with all codes, so the GC will back up the electrician.

As I said I would not have damaged your cord, but from your description I would have asked you to remove it from the site.

And Pearlfish has some good points to think about.
Posted By: txsparky Re: questions - 01/15/03 08:20 PM
[Linked Image from pages.sbcglobal.net]

If it looked similiar to this,it is listed as one of the top ten OSHA violations according to Leviton.
Posted By: nichols Re: questions - 01/15/03 10:31 PM
Nichols, Just a few more questions, so we can understand everyones position on this.
1. Was this a union jobsite?
Nope, not a union jobsite.

2. Are you a union contractor?
Nope
3. Did the electricion whom you refer to identify himself as a union rep. or as a safety officer?
Nope, didnt even know who he was until i found him going up the stairs with a pair of cutters cutting my cord in half, and then when he got to my box, he trashed it..
4. Has your supervisor explained to you the terms of your companies contract and defined your scope of work at this jobsite?
Yea, we're the low voltage team that installs the cabling for the computers and phones to work. This device has been used on other job sites, it was even given a thumbs up by my companys electrical division.. We we're tired of having people tearing up our walkie-talkie battery stands, walking off with our drill chargers, so we made this box..
I have worn many hats over the years and have seen situations as you describe many times. If this was a union jobsite and you are a non-union contractor doing work that has been exempted from a contract. Than be relieved that your extension cord was the only thing damaged. I am not saying this is right or wrong, however this is what its like working with the big boys.

Instead of going back to your teacher and complaining, you should tell him that you had a new learning experience.

Not going to goto my teacher and complain, I am not complaining to you guys right nows, since i walked up to this gentleman and asked him what his problem was with our cord, and he went into a rant about low voltage techs dont know this and that. I was more looking for an understanding from other electricians.. I didnt want to start a mud slinging contest or anything. I just wanted to know if it was against any code.

BTW, I tried to explain this to the guy on the site, and he refused to listen to me. The only way we used this device , since I have reference to the GFCI, was if they had a spider on site that had one of those GFCI's on it, or some other such device, if not this cord was to be run from the truck.. a power inverter..
Posted By: jdevlin Re: questions - 01/15/03 11:01 PM
I didn't realize the guy had destroted your cord. That's a little different then telling you get the thing off his site which I based my first comments on.
Posted By: Bjarney Re: questions - 01/15/03 11:34 PM
Digital cameras are getting cheaper all the time.
Posted By: ga.sparky56 Re: questions - 01/16/03 01:13 AM
Sounds like the electrician was more of a hazard than your cords!
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: questions - 01/16/03 01:31 AM
Maybe the "cutting" sparky's company lost the phone/data part of the job to your company, and what he did was "getting even"

I'm not condoning what happened. Along with the majority, I feel your equipment should not have been destroyed. Sounds like there's bad blood on that job

John
Posted By: nichols Re: questions - 01/17/03 12:27 AM
Seems like your right, this guy was fired and his lic. is under review? Dont know what that means, but they had secuirty take him off the job site today.. I still am clueless as to what set him off about my cord, but I guess he has problems.. Never knew you could have your lic. under review.. Anyhow.. thanks for your guys inputs.. I was just curious about this, i have nothing but respect for electricians, until they pull what this guy did.. [Linked Image]
Posted By: iwire Re: questions - 01/17/03 12:32 AM
Sometimes Life Is Good [Linked Image]

That must have brightened your day!
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