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Posted By: harold endean Re: Sump Pump - 03/23/13 04:14 PM
Do sump pumps have to be on GFCI protection?
Posted By: shortcircuit Re: Sump Pump - 03/23/13 05:48 PM
Depends...
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Sump Pump - 03/23/13 11:57 PM
Harold:
A single receptacle is OK in my book, w/o GF.
Posted By: shortcircuit Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 12:28 AM
They make GFCI receptacles with audible alarms now. These work great in areas that require GFCI receptacles and you have concern for lost power on pumps, refridgerators or similar equipment.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 04:41 AM
I would like to see some more answers before I reply to my own post. smile
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 06:12 AM
The law?

There is not a lot of wiggle room in 210.8

Quote
(5) Unfinished basements — for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

If this is a crawlspace, unfinished basement or garage, the only 120v 15/20a receptacle that gets an exception is an alarm circuit.
Even a dedicated single is not OK unless you come up with an alarm to plug in it.
You could get away with rewiring it to 240 from what I read.

I am glad I don't need to explain that to a home owner.

On the other hand this is a lot more dangerous than what we protect from in swimming pools.
I see;
.A flood
..The pump stopped
...A homeowner standing in ankle deep water with a screwdriver in his hand trying to figure out why the pump isn't running.

In a perfect world there would be a dead face GFCI at the top of the steps, just feeding the sump pump. If it won't hold, you are done.
If it was indicating (noise or light) you have something.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 04:56 PM
Greg,

When I see a BA/FA transformer it is either in a duplex receptacle that is over 6' or higher. (no GFI required). I have seen them in single receptacles. Then the installer usually tie warps the trans to the box.

Would you allow this, a duplex receptacle with the phase leg strap snipped so that the top half of the duplex is dead, but the bottom half is live. This way the installer can still use the 6-32 screw to hold the trans in place. Also you should make the installer paint the top half black or something like write DEAD on the top half.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 05:16 PM
I have another question/scenario, What about a finished basement with a bathroom. There is a ejector/grinder pump for the basement toilet. It is behind the finished wall into the "Unfinished" area of the basement. Is GFI protection required for the receptacle? If it is a duplex? Single?
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 05:42 PM
Harold:
The split duplex with the 'dead' half has been a subject of discussion many times. Technically, I'll take a shot that it is 'wrong', as there is a single device that is readilly available. My opinion; show me why & I may agree. The wall wart transformer is (according to mfg) be mounted via the plate screw. Would I have an issue with tie-wraps? Probably not.

Back to the sump & ejector pumps; IMHO, the scenario Greg wrote above is a safety issue. IMHO, I have not heard of anyone saying 'the guy in xxx town wants GFI'.

Posted By: gfretwell Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 06:32 PM
Quote
When I see a BA/FA transformer it is either in a duplex receptacle that is over 6' or higher. (no GFI required).


Where is there a 6' exception to 210.8(5)?

I am not sure I would get too excited about a duplex, serving the transformer for a BA/FA. If NEMA would catch up with the code, the wall wart would have screw tabs spaced for the cover screws on a single receptacle.

Posted By: shortcircuit Re: Sump Pump - 03/24/13 07:23 PM
But as far as the 2011 code is concerned, all those receptacles above need GFCI except the FA outlet.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Sump Pump - 03/25/13 01:02 PM
OOHH!

Looks like I hit the right button! smile OK, my take. I hear a lot of EC's complaining about putting a sing recpt. AND GFI protection for sump pumps. As Greg stated, I don't think there is that exception. I wish there was.

As for trans (wall warts) as you call them. (Don't think I ever heard that term.) I like the idea of the duplex with the dead top part because the wall wart is secure. I have also seen them mounted up high so that GFI protection is not required. Using a tie wrap for the wart could have a problem. Sometimes those wraps do break.
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