ECN Forum
Posted By: Frank Cinker Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 02:32 PM
Is it ever legal to padlock a service disconnect in the "on" position? I reviewed Article 230 and could not find an exception. I personally don't think it's legal. The problem is every so often a mischievous person will turn the main switch off at one of our public facilities. The switch is located outdoors to public access. Is there any accepted practice to solve such a problem.

Frank

[This message has been edited by Frank Cinker (edited 01-09-2003).]
Posted By: C-H Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 02:36 PM
Put a camera above the disco that takes a snapshot when the disco is operated. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Wirenuttt Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 02:47 PM
That's a real p.i.t.a.. Camera seems like a good solution. Locking it could be a problem in emergency situations. Wondering if the AHJ and fire dept. would allow a lock box mounted next to the disco with a key to the pad lock like they use for fire alarm. The F.D. carries the key to the lock box. I beleive it's a standard key to fit all lock boxs in that same city.Might be worth asking the ahj and f.d. to find out. Tell them the situation your in. Hope this helps.
~Ange
Posted By: electure Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 03:17 PM
I think the camera's a good idea. I think a lock on the disco's not. (240.24?) A frangible lock might be OK, but it's as easy for a vandal to break it as the FD.
Put one up in an obvious position, and have another that's hidden.
Scott 35, the "Bank Man", is probably the best guy to answer this Q.
Hey, Scott, you around?


[This message has been edited by electure (edited 01-09-2003).]
Posted By: Creighton Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 03:32 PM
230.70(A)(1) only requires that the disconnect LOCATION be readilly accessible. Where accessible to the public it is logical to lock the disconnect to avoid vandalism. Most commercial buildings have the service equipment in a locked room. Nothing wrong with that. 230.92 recognizes that the service disconect may be locked.
Posted By: Creighton Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 03:41 PM
Forgot to mention that even with the switch handle locked, or the circuit breaker handle locked on, the fuses will still blow, and the circuit breaker being trip-free will open, so there is little sacrifice of safety involved.
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 05:51 PM
These days, there are cases where absence of power creates a greater hazard, such as loss of area lighting. A trade magazine in the eighties discussed litigation involving a disconnect switch serving a bilge pump that was turned off by a vandal, causing flooding and significant property damage.

Some externally operable switches have an index mark on the handle flange/lockplate for field drilling a shackle hole for “on” padlocking.

http://www.squared.com/us/products/...52566c50073d833/$FILE/3100BR9801R601.pdf page 5/item 22—The switch can also be modified so that the switch can be locked in the ON position if required by the application.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 01-09-2003).]
Posted By: Frank Cinker Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 06:21 PM
It seems as if the AHJ rules absence of power creates a greater hazard a service disconnect can be locked in the on position. Just the fact some Square D disconnects have provisions for such a padlock installation makes me believe it could be legal. I plan to call our Public Safety Department tomorrow morning to get a ruling.
Thank you for the excellent information.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/09/03 11:37 PM
Frank:
Have had the same situation a few times here in NJ.
OK to lock on with a "breakaway Padlock".
Same type used on exterior sprinkler system valves.
Yes, this is a PITA.
Your local AHJ should not have a problem.
As stated above OCP will still function, and in an emergency, the breakaway lock is acceptable.
John
Posted By: Frank Cinker Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/10/03 12:52 PM
I am not familiar with a breakaway padlock. Is there a product website I can look at?
I assume it looks like a standard padlock.

Frank
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/10/03 07:49 PM
Frank:
The breakaway padlocks we use are from WW Grainger
They are made by Master Lock
I'm not a web maven, but if you do a search you should find Master Lock.
Grainger has a site: Grainger.com
They are located nationwide, and there should be a branch near you.

3 in Pittsburg:
Park West Drive, Beta Drive and Liberty Ave.

I have phone numbers if you want them.
John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 01-10-2003).]
Posted By: Bjarney Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/10/03 08:27 PM
"Frangible" and "breakaway" are essentially one in the same. Typically, a padlock with a (replaceable) frangible shackle can be "opened" with a standard-issue firefighter’s axe.
Posted By: Frank Cinker Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/10/03 10:09 PM
HotLine1-

I live in Pittsburgh and our Department has an account with Grainger. It should be easy to find. Thanks.

One other related question. I've seen large weather proof enclosures with hinge doors and padlock with service disconnect inside. Has anyone ever seen a set up like that?
The service disconnect is not padlocked in the on position but the enclosure covering it does have a padlock on it.
Posted By: Fred Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/10/03 10:10 PM
We had a similar problem at a factory with the A/C disconnects. We didn't want to lock them so we used a bolt and nylon insert lock nut. Anyone with pliers could get in but most casual vandals aren't equiped.
Posted By: Frank Cinker Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/11/03 01:01 AM
http://www.geocities.com/cinkerf/elec.html
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/12/03 07:37 PM
Frank:
Should have mentioned it in earlier post....
Yes, we have quite a few 3R switchboards &/or switchgear that are "locked".
The main disco is "inside" the gear, and the exterior doors are padlockable. A few have "tenant" meters and mains and are also locked. We usually supply the utility with a master key for the meter reader.

Also, PSE&G sometimes requests a "large" 3R enclosure for a meter can & "Room" for additional metering equipment, and that enclosure also is lockable.

John
Posted By: Frank Cinker Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/12/03 11:17 PM
John-

From what I've learned on this thread is that there are two possible viable options:

1. Padlockable 3R enclosures with service disconnect inside.

2. Breakaway padlocks installed on the service disconnect itself.

I work for Local Government and some of our facilities are located in inner City "bad" neighborhoods. Vandals think nothing of walking by and turning the service disconnect off.

Frank
Posted By: MegaMike Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 12:08 AM
Just a quick question... I've been in the business forever but I guess I have a hard time with some of your acronyms. What does "AHJ" mean? And, stop laughing at me 'cause I know what LOL means! [Linked Image]
Posted By: harold endean Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 12:57 AM
As an AHJ ( Authority Having Jurisdiction) OR (A**hole having jurisdiction) take your pick. I would not have a problem with a lock. The breaker or fuse will protrct the electrical equipment. I would ask that the fire dept. get a copy of the key so that they can shut off it case of emergency.
Posted By: MegaMike Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 01:07 AM
Thanks Harold, I'd have never gussed that.
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 02:12 AM
Bjarney wrote:
Typically, a padlock with a (replaceable) frangible shackle can be "opened" with a standard-issue firefighter’s axe.

A firefighter's axe looks like it would open more than just the padlock... It would certainly make for interesting conversation when greeting somebody who is messing around with the disconnect [Linked Image]
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 02:48 AM
This is the respected term used to identify the
Quote
Authority Having Jurisdiction. The organization, office, or individual responsible for approving equipment, materials, an installation, or a procedure.

FPN: The phrase “authority having jurisdiction” is used in NFPA documents in a broad manner, since jurisdictions and approval agencies vary, as do their responsibilities.

Where public safety is primary, the authority having jurisdiction may be a federal, state, local, or other regional department or individual such as a fire chief; fire marshal; chief of a fire prevention bureau, labor department, or health department; building official; electrical inspector; or others having statutory authority.

For insurance purposes, an insurance inspection department, rating bureau, or other insurance company representative may be the authority having jurisdiction. In many circumstances, the property owner or his or her designated agent assumes the role of the authority having jurisdiction; at government installations, the commanding officer or departmental official may be the authority having jurisdiction.

PS: The editing function here on the board allows for removal of unnecessary words such as:

ass·hole ( P ) Pronunciation Key (shl)
n. Vulgar Slang
The anus.
A thoroughly contemptible, detestable person.

The most miserable or undesirable place in a particular area.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Harold: I cannot imagine anyone calling you an a**hole!
Posted By: electure Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 12:52 PM
Another option is the use of a "Knox Box", a FD/PD key box.
They're in regular use here in So. CA. They contain keys for use in emergencies. Available with or without alarm contacts. www.knoxbox.com/
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 09:37 PM
Frank:
And here I thought we had all the "bad boys" here in NJ. Ha!

Stock up on breakaway padlocks!

And if the "bad boys" are REAL bad, then you may have to go for the real big, indestructable Master Padlock, and the Knox Box.

Get it "KNOX" like the inpregnable Fort!!
They're a good thing.

John
Posted By: airportelectrician Re: Padlock on Service Disconnect - 01/13/03 10:17 PM
For our EM feeders, Chicago allows, possibly by special permission, removal of the operating handle of the switch. We then keep the handle in the posesion of our electricians or in a locked cabinet in the electrical room. These ARE supervised locations. These are both wall hung and switchboard mounted devices. If you'd like a picture let me know.
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