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Posted By: HotLine1 Compliance Question - 01/08/03 02:31 AM
This is directed mainly towards SvenNYC, but opinions from anyone else are appreciated.

Sven stated his NY resolution is to rewire his apartment's crumbling wires

I'm not "picking" on Sven, his abilities, or the fact that he's not an EC, but this subject was discussed a few times at work, and I would like some input from other areas.

My qustion is:
Is he allowed to do this work "leagally" in NY, if he is NOT a licensed EC??

Here in NJ, the owner of a single family home can perform all work, as long as he lives in the home,is capable of doing the work, and obtains the required permits and inspections. ALL other electrical work must be performed by Lic. EC's


John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 01-07-2003).]
Posted By: Wirenuttt Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 02:46 AM
In Mass u can run a business with a journeymans license. Your not allowed to hire another licensed electrician and you can only hire one electrical apprentice. This law pretty much speaks for itself, you wouldn't be capapble of working on large projects. You could do homes and some commercial possibly some light industrial.
Posted By: lighthouse Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 03:44 AM
hotline1...i'm working with a guy from ny this week and will ask him tomorrow.see what he says.

wirenuttt...who had the brains for that rule.talk about stupid.
Posted By: Wirenuttt Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 03:04 PM
lighthouse;

That's the way it's always been as far as I can remember. There are other rules that go along with being a journeyman in Mass. Your Co. van has to display your full name then electrician with #s. Masters can pick any name. Jman has to use this full name on all bill heads, biz cards etc.. There was a time in Mass where there had to be the letter E before the numbers and an additional E for every time they had taken the exam. I remember seeing a few vans years ago with several Es on them. This was overturned considered discriminating and defamation. I mean imagine having a dozen Es on your van and showing up to meet a builder to wire a house.Tell yah the truth I don't think it's a bad idea to have a chance to run a limited biz on a j-mans. Gives you a chance to see what it's like, then if you decide to grow you have the oportunity to get the masters and expand. Most Jman are sole proprietorship.
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 04:23 PM
Lighthouse:
BTW, in NJ, you are "supposed" to have your "name" on your trucks, and your lic. #
Without all the details, the License # belongs to the individual, the Business Permit # belongs to the business, and 1 Lic
Business to a Lic EC. If you alter the business name, you add an "A"; "B", etc each time.
If you want the details e-mail me direct please.

Back to the question of this thread:
In your location(s) who is "allowed" to legally do electrical work in an apartment??

BTW, Where are you from???
WIRENUTT: Thanks for the input
John
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 05:36 PM
Hotline:

I must confess, I haven't looked into the permit aspect of it yet. I should do that...I don't know what the legalities of it are.

However I don't think anyone who has done renovations in their apartments in the building I live in have ever taken out permits.

I know one guy who definitely didn't...he owns two apartments and knocked down the wall in the middle and joined them. Although judging from what he's done it shure ain't up to my taste....knocking the plaster off the brick walls so they have that "fashionable" exposed brick look, etc. Then he scraped off all the paint on the door frames, radiator covers, etc. to bare metal and had some guy come in and laquer them over...so that it looks like stainless steel.

What can I say...he's a fashion photographer...hehehe. Guess he was going for that loft look. [Linked Image]

Hell...I'd see this guy with a luggage cart at night with a box...tossing the plaster chips in the garbage can on the street corner and dumpsters a couple of blocks down the street. [Linked Image]
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 08:15 PM
Sven:
I know what you mean about the trash in "cans/dumpsters by others" He's hiding the evidence.

I'm not being critical or picky about what you want to do, I am curious if the NJ way is the same in other localities.

John
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Compliance Question - 01/08/03 08:51 PM
Hotline:

Don't worry about it. I'm curious about it myself. [Linked Image]

Considering it is an apartment building and if I do anything stupid I could cause damage to neighboring units....I wouldn't be surprised if the permit requirements are probably even stricter than New Jersey.
Posted By: Happi_Man Re: Compliance Question - 01/09/03 12:40 AM
In Ohio we are supposed to have our Lic # on our trucks too - but couldn't someone potentially use my lic number to pull a permit for themselves?
Posted By: harold endean Re: Compliance Question - 01/09/03 02:56 AM
John,

I just had this fight not so long ago. If you read your NJ contractor's by laws, a maintenance man in a factory can "legally" do electrical work for that factory. However he has to be "qualified". According to NJ by laws "qualification" means that the worker has to have 8,000 hours of practical experinece and who has 576 hours of classroom training. It comes from the NJ Administrative Code Title 13, Chapter 31. Board of Examiners, Subchapter 1, 13:31-1.3(b).
Posted By: lighthouse Re: Compliance Question - 01/09/03 03:24 AM
HotLine1...i talked to the electrician today about what you where asking about. and he told me the home owner can leagally do his own electrical work in his home where he lives.he has to pull a permit for the electrical work and have it inspected.just like new jersey.

hotline1.i also have a master electrical lic for the state of delaware.had it about 5 yrs and never had used it.but if i was working in delaware the letters and numbers must be displayed on the truck too.just your lic number. that's it

Wirenuttt...i can see it now..driving down the road eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
what rules apply if you have your masters.number of electricians,helpers etc.
Posted By: Wirenuttt Re: Compliance Question - 01/09/03 04:17 AM
lighthouse;
If your mastered you can hire as many jmans as you want, but you can only hire one apprentice per jman. 1 to 1 ratio.
Posted By: lighthouse Re: Compliance Question - 01/09/03 04:38 AM
Wirenuttt..thanks for the info...now what do they call the helpers....little eeeeeeee .just kidding
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Compliance Question - 01/09/03 11:42 PM
Guys:
Thanks for the responses.
How about some other areas???
Hey 66 where are you??

John
Posted By: Happi_Man Re: Compliance Question - 01/10/03 01:14 AM
What's the difference between a Master, Journeyman, Apprentice and a State Licenced Electrician?
Posted By: sparky66wv Re: Compliance Question - 01/10/03 05:14 AM
John, you rang?

[Linked Image from users.stargate.net]

Here is West Virginia, I suppose one could perform independent work as a Journeyman if none of the jobs exceeded $999.99.

A homeowner can perform their own work unlicensed, if I'm not mistaken.

The State Fire Marshal controls the electrician licenses, the levels being Apprentice, Journeyman, and Master.

One has to have someone in their company with a Masters in order to qualify for a Contractor's. And at one time (just a few years ago) one had to take the WV Contractor's test in business law and electrical, given by the proctor "Experior".

Now, apparently the EC license and the Masters license is reciprocal, in that if you have one, simply write a check for the other.

With this latest change, and all of the grand-fathered ECs and electricians before me, I feel I'm one of the few who actually had to take ALL of the tests!

[Linked Image]

Tom, please feel free to add to or correct my claims here!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 01-10-2003).]
Posted By: Geno Re: Compliance Question - 01/10/03 07:45 PM
NY doesn't have State licensing, license by locality only. I believe in NYC in order to perform any electrical installations you would need a license and file a permit. That's the way it is in Syracuse, NY, 2 diferent levels, Master and Limited. Limited is allowed to file permits for resi., but you must have a master to file a permit for any other installations ( commercial, industrial, etc.)
Posted By: sparky Re: Compliance Question - 01/10/03 11:08 PM
Lately i simply concede to those who can effectively defuse the bomb, as opposed to creating one....
Posted By: nesparky Re: Compliance Question - 01/14/03 07:44 AM
In NE a hommeowner can pull the permit and do the electrical in the house in which he/she lives. All other work requires a licensed contractor to pull the permit, a master/contractor or journeyman to do the work. We have a 3 to 1 ratio (3 apprentices to one license)
In most of Ia outside of cities with there own rules it's open season. no AHJ no permits no inspections and no licenses issued
Posted By: ThinkGood Re: Compliance Question - 01/14/03 01:03 PM
A side note to what SvenNYC wrote about scraping old paint in the apartment:

That in itself is a NYC no-no unless the person doing the removal of the paint was properly trained, and the area was properly sealed off, due to the potential lead hazard. NYC can write up a violation for that, let alone the rest of it [Linked Image]
Posted By: SvenNYC Re: Compliance Question - 01/14/03 05:01 PM
I was in this guy's apartment a couple of times while he was knocking plaster off the brick wall.

I dunno WHAT this guy's idea of redecorating was...the job he did seems awful. Here you have this pretty well-to-do guy living in an apartment that looks worse than something I lived in as a young boy. Granted I think this is still a work-in-progress...

But then it's not my place to criticize...to each his own. [Linked Image]
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