We have been busy the last week getting power restored to people in northern new jersey. I have a couple of homes with damage to the panel buss because the panels were energized. we are just going to replace them. Today we went to a commercial property with a 1200 amp 3 phase switch gear where the feeders lands on lugs at the end of the buss. The service was hot under water and now have white corrosion on them. the buss has rust and obvious signs that it was under water. I am no engineer so what is the typical course of action in dealing with this issue??

Falcon:

You can read the NEMA reccomendations here on this link:

http://www.nema.org/stds/water-damaged.cfm

It's not NEC verbatum, but....remember 110.3 (b) (Mfg instructions)

Resi stuff is trashed basically. Large comm/ind gear may be 'factory' (mfg) certified as refurbished. Factory costs and timeline vs. replacement $$ are an important factor.

based on your description, lugs are replacable.....buss is an an issue.

wow you are quick. I just came across that link in another post and didn't get back in time to say so. It looks like a call to the mfg is in order.

Thank you for the quick response, again

If the bus is Al I'd expect it to be totally trashed.

If copper...?

I'd expect that either way -- it's going to be replaced.

That level of flooding normally requires gutting.

Flood damage that high had to effect a lot more than just the Service.

There was a lot of homeowners last year that wanted electricians to "sign-off" on houses that were flooded out in the big rains. This was due to the insurance companies.
"

What I'd be more concerned about is not the lugs themselves, but the wires connected to them.
Having water get into any sort of wiring where it is terminated at a lug (or whatever), can cause water to move up under the cable insulation (by capillary effect), this can then cause a failure later on as the wire corrodes from the inside out.

I myself would be rather hesitant in re-connecting anything that has been submerged, without a VERY good megger and continuity test being done on the the whole place.
Let alone certify it as safe.
Be very careful here, it could come back to bite you in the britches.

Mike:
I share your opinion. Wiring that is submerged, or been subject to 'water damage' has to be replaced. The effects of corrosion or other internal damage cannot be 'seen' and will rear its head eventually.

I didn't mention anything regarding the conductors to the OP, as he only seemed to have concerns about the gear. Perhaps a 'bad' on my part?

There are some companies out there who will take the time and try to clean out all of the service gear to see if it is fit to re-use. As long as I get a letter from them stating that it is OK to turn back on, that letter goes into the file for reference.

Harold:
You are talking commercial (large) gear, not resi, right?

I can't imagine any circumstance whereby a commercial property could purchase fire insurance upon a property that's been flooded and then re-energized.

Period.

The debris that comes with a flood ruins everything. Things like MAINS circuit breakers.

It all has to go back to the factory for a rebuild. The active components are going to be toast.

Floods are disasters, plain and simple.

You can't fox your way around it.

Tesla:

Point made & taken.

Flood damage is a lot more involved than just 'drying out'. The only documentation that I accept would involve large comm (800 amp & up) equipment. The docs would have to be from the original mfg, OR a UL certified rebuilder/reseller. Aftermath of the recent hurricane & flooding produced NO re-certifications. The few comm sites replaced a few transformers (75 to 150 KVA), feeders, and a few fused disconnects.

ALL the resi flood affected electrical was removed & replaced with new. (One complex was 125 meters & mains)

John,


Yes, I was talking about the larger commercial services. The EC can remove a main breaker and get them re-conditioned.

And yet ....

Back during the 1995/96 holidays, Reno, Nv., suffered a major flood. One of my customers - an RV/trailer park - was submerged under 6-8ft. of water.

PoCo distribution was underground, stopping every so often to feed a 4-ft. tall cabinet with six PoCo meters in it. Feeds from these meters went to each trailer's pedestal. These cabinets - which were not gasketed - were completely submerged.

To this day, if you open these cabinets you are likely to find an inch or two of silt left by the retreating floodwaters. The cabinets weren't even cleaned, let alone replaced. I suppose it's possible that the meters might have been replaced. Maybe.

We know the main breakers were not replaced, by the silt left on them.

Yet, nearly sixteen years later, I am not aware of any failures of this gear. Is it possible that this whole 'flood damage' issue is drivin by engineers/marketing folks playing at being lawyers, rather than actual experience?

Of all the things, I would think the meters would do the best. Aren't they hermetically sealed units? I have seen one bobbing around in the water after a fireman popped it out and it was dry inside. (the Hurricane Agness flood in Md)

As for flood damage, it really depends on how long something was wet and what was in the water. I guarantee the trip curve of your breakers won't be the same if they get salty water in them. It will probably be the classic FP flat line, essentially a one cent fuse.

John...

I'll bet there is no fire insurance at hazard.

It's the insurance industry that'll have a cow.

Greg,

In the one housing complex I inspected, there were 300 electrical meters that went underwater. At least half of them had water in them when I got there a week later to get the power turned back on to the complex.