I'm going to install a 4 meter pack panel on a 4 plex apartment building. For the house meter the AHJ says I have to install a commercial panel next to the 4 pack and feed it off of the meter side. He said he won't accept a 5 packer. I'm not sure why.

The 4 meter pack panel is rated at 400 amps. How do I size the feeder from it to the house panel?

FWIW, I think you should have a re-run of the conversation you had with the AHJ.

What you describe above will not only get you a red sticker, you would also be subject to theft of services. (Non-metered tap)

The commercial panel would have it's own meter/main.

But yea, another conversation with AHJ is a good idea.

You need to get in touch with either PG&E -- their Green Book --- or SMUD or Roseville Electric.

All are EUSERC conforming utilities.

ONLY EUSERC approved equipment will be tolerated.

You need to touch base with the Poco -- the AHJ is almost irrelevant.

A 5 pack would permit you to power up a 'house panel.' -- I.e. Landlord's panel.

It's a loser as far as the Poco goes.

You've been talking to the wrong guy. -- You HAVE to get in touch with the Poco.

You can meet every AHJ issue -- and then fail your Poco standards -- and never get any power.

The Poco does not take orders from the AHJ, period.

Go to the EUSERC site -- Bing is your friend.

Tesla:

Thanks for the California 'way'. It's a little different here on the east side.

That's the NorCal way, SoCal is quite a bit different, but the AHJ does NOT have any say on whether you use a 5-pack or a separate house/meter panel.

Either way would work, but the POCO makes the final decision on what's acceptable and PG&E does have a design guide for this issue.

I have never heard the acronym EUSERC used within SCE or SDG&E territory.

Vindi

Google it.

SCE founded it... with PG&E joining in next -- back in the 1945 era.

ALL of the western utilities are now EUSERC members:
SCE
PG&E
SMUD
SDG&E
Roseville Electric
APS

EUSERC is the controlling entity WRT all Service Equipment -- that's its ambit.

When you thumb through Sq D's catalog EUSERC conformance will be noted whenever it applies. So, western ECs simply cross off all of the equipment not so conforming -- it will be rejected out of hand.

That is why notions proffered by eastern electricians inre Services must be discarded -- since EUSERC standards will never be the low cost approach. We're not allowed to gin up clever solutions like the rest of the country.

Beyond that, there are many, many restrictions placed upon residential properties -- like requiring HOs to trench in heavy-ups -- the existing OH drop is not permitted to scale up. The local jurisdiction wants them all to move underground. These restrictions are ten-a-penny in zoning crazed California.

One example: a commercial job I built required a set of utility pull boxes -- joined by PVC -- stubbed to the property limits -- even though the existing power lines were in place -- above on poles.

The task was brutally difficult due to a personal war with SMUD initiated by my PM and hardpan so tough it defeated power equipment! ( Think concrete )

If this tread is going to shift to EUSERC, maybe we should just start another thread about that?
It does seem to be an interesting thing but I doubt we easterners know much about it.

I didn't say I didn't know what it was, just that no one down here throws the acronym around, it isn't necessary since the vendor must provide compliant gear within the territory they're serving.

It is the opposite for me...
ALL Service Equipment shall be EUSERC Listed.
More precise, Approved Service Equipment shall be from a list of approved EUSERC Drawings.

This is standard with:

SCE,
SDG&E,
LADWP,
APU (Anaheim Public Utilities),
PG&E,
Burbank W&P (Water & Power),
Glendale W&P,
Pasadena W&P,
etc.

Vendors typically indicate the PoCo + EUSERC + Drawing Numbers... i.e.: SCE - EUSERC Drawing No. 325

-- Scott

gfretwell...

EUSERC keeps crawling eastwards.

At some point the entire country will endorse EUSERC.

It knocks off the screwy 'cost saving' goofy solutions to Services.

Instead, the solution set is reduced to those that are entirely standard -- and SAFE.

It got started because of too many brutal fatalities -- because the crews were not aware of all of the screwy Service schemes.

Example: EUSERC abhors floating Delta Services.

Even Stinger Legs are out.

Just NOT worth it.

A couple of bucks vs killing a lineman? Forget it.

EUSERC wants but a handful of solutions -- most of them WYE for 3 phase -- and center tapped for residential.

As a result, injury rates have collapsed. It no longer takes a rocket scientist to figure out what is up with this or that Service.

EUSERC limits Services to 480 Y 277 and 208 Y 120 for commercial --

and only by exception anything else.

EUSERC is retiring 240 Delta center-tapped 240D120 Services.

This is consistent with industry moving heavy loads to 480 - -so what's the purpose of 240 3-phase power? -- No purpose at all.

Such motors are freakishly rare. You have either 200VAC 3 phase or 460VAC 3 phase -- 230 3 phase is history.

The computer industry was very happy using 3p 120/240.
That may have changed but I bet big iron like check sorters still use it.

Back in the olden days a disk drive had a 3/4hp 3p motor and a printer had several 3 p motors but that is ancient history.

I still bet the big RAMAC arrays use a 3p 60a circuit.

Again, not getting my message:

NO one touts anything as being EUSERC this or EUSERC that, they simply provide what is REQUIRED within the territory the project is within.

The acronym may be embedded DEEP within boiler-plate specs, but again it is unnecessary since it is known what is required to comply with a particular POCO's requirements and the POCO's requirements trump EUSERC whether they're a member or not.

Interestingly enough, a quick search of the SDG&E design guide/standards comes up without a single occurrence of EUSERC. SCE's and LADWP's standards both come up with numerous occurrences, but those are mostly because they use EUSERC's drawings as their own and make no changes to them.

The point:

You have to comply with the POCO's requirements not EUSERC. If the POCO has adopted EUSERC standards it's no different than saying this bolt was manufactured to ANSI standard blah blah blah. EUSERC creates and defines standards, but only the POCO has the authority to enforce them.

Which is no different than the local AHJ making amendments to the NEC before adopting the latest code, the NEC is only a reference and by itself is not enforceable and same is true of EUSERC standards.

In RI we would have to put a 5 gang meter socket the first one is a house meter that must control all general lighting ( stairway and hallway) or any other areas that are shared . In Providence the first meter socket must be Manual-bypass.