http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NwEFVUb-u0&feature=player_detailpage

Now that i've made the leap to an apprenticeship sponsor in my state, and am talking to some of the people involved , i'm getting quite the eductaion in what is a growing Skilled labor shortage

if you have a few minutes, listen to 'dirty jobs Mike' speak before Congress , he spoke well imho

~S~

~s~:
Thanks for the link!

Fact is quite a few people entering the job market are looking for jobs where they don't get 'dirty'.

I see enrolement at the Vo Tech I teach (PT) at diminishing, year by year. Some entering think that in 12 weeks they will be 'lectricians'.

Nice one, I explain what the trade entails as to conditions, advancement, financial, and what is expected of the 'employee' by the employer.

A statement from one of the journeymen I work with is 'eight for eight'. That may be a good slogan to put on the wall.

tbc

I agree. They talk about "shovel ready" jobs but I am not sure most of the "millennials" are "shovel ready" or any other job that isn't "air conditioned". They all seem to want to be hedge fund managers.
I think we are trying to get everyone in a 4 year college, loaded up with over $100,000 in debt and then they find out the only jobs that are available require some kind of trade training. Maybe we should be diverting these kids in high school and start their apprenticeship then. If we don't get our kids in these jobs, there is a Latino, waiting to hop the fence and take them.

HotOne, i tell anyone interested that it's at least a 8 yr investment, and that's if everything falls into place. When it's cold, you'll be cold, Hot, you'll be hot, and you'll be eating that pound of dirt way before your time

talking to some of the local apprenticeship teachers, i'm understanding enrollment is down, and they need a minimum of 8 per class, so they've opted for interactive TV around the state for 1st yr here

i mean, they used to have a waiting list

can you imagine the backburn from all this a decade from now?

~S~

i'm currently working a big job with a gaggle of colledge kids waiting for their ship to come in.....~S~

Gotta road to drive on?

Gotta car to drive

Got bridges, streetlights, stop lights,etc

in fact everything you drive past , or consumable you may purchace has ONE thing in common >


~S~

In my neck of the woods employers expectations have gone sky high -- and their wage rates have dropped 40 percent and more.

What was $21 is now $13.

In such an environment it's absurd to think that the trades are attractive.

Further, until unlimited immigration is halted, blue collar wages can't rise.

This was seen before in the 1880 to 1910 era: wages went nowhere. A fresh batch of immigrants always made the natives compete against their poverty.

That's how the union movement got started.

Comes WWI -- immigration is halted entirely. Overnight, labor is king, and wages start to simply take off. It was typical for a man to earn but one dollar for a days work in 1905. By 1915, Henry Ford was paying an incredible $5 per day. His move was the leading edge of ramping wages and living conditions for blue collar labor.

We effectively opened the door - wide open - with the 1964 immigration 'reforms.' It is notable that since the early 70's real wages for electricians -- to include the IBEW -- have slid backwards. No one in construction could avoid the impact of under the table workforce 'participation' in the trades.

If you're a general contractor -- you find yourself underbid to the point you fold shop.

BTW, the government never includes illegal immigrant unemployment in its statistics. Yet, obviously, they ARE unemployed -- with implications for the national economy.

When you add back all of the categories of laid off/ un-hired ( fresh out of school) / illegals/ too long unemployed -- you discover that our nation has it worse than the Great Depression. The huge difference being our national / state welfare system eliminates the need for soup kitchens.

-----

Any young man looking at these trends is trying to find a port in the economic storm. Construction is going to contract yet again as this Greatest Depression slumps again.

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Out my way there are NO ads for apprentices. The J-man glut is massive.

truer words have seldom been written Tesla

but i'll tell you what, the blues built this country

and the blues can rebuild it again ........just mho

~S~

Last I heard, the local hall aws clean out of apprentices here. J-men are hanging on, taking what is available. Most of the guys I know have been finding work recently. It's not booming, but there is work around. Data centers, office reno, and...solar.

Bidding is cut throat, more bids then ever, lots of hungry GCs, who are beating the subs for $$$ any way they can. An EC told me Monday that there were 14 bids on a 75k sq ft whse/office reno project.

Back to the intent of this thread....

IMHO, there are many people (not trades) that, while they are & have been unemployed for an extended period, don't want any type of job that involves physical work, and getting dirty. They also are expecting to start at a salary close to what they had in the 'office/suit' worlds in the financial sectors. Glancing thru the classified ads in the papers, I have not noticed any electrical trade ads in a long time.

Trust me, the tech jobs took a similar hit in the late 80s and 90s. That is why I got out of the computer biz and migrated toward electrical.

There are plenty of college graduates, with six figure student loans and still waiting for that big job to come along. Immigration has not done them any favors either. Companies like Microsoft will lay off an American making $60k and replace them with an H1B visa worker who will do it for $20k. It is no coincidence that there are about the same number of tech workers on unemployment around Seattle as there are H1Bs.

Try to catch the Dan Rather Reports show "No Thanks For Everything"(original broadcast 6-14-11)
http://blip.tv/hdnet-news-and-docum...hanks-for-everything-bob-malcolm-5286742

I wonder if a politician's definition of a shortage of electricians is not having workers sitting at home waiting for a call, or having to pay more than minimum wage. I think we should open up immigration for politicians so we can drive their wages down, too.

I suppose the same can be said here as can be said in the current "permit snafu" ad:

We have met the enemy, and he is us!

Accept THAT, and you know where to find the solution.

Supply side economics continues to survive despite the inherent flaws obvious festerings folks, we're talking over a generation since they told us the wealth would trickle down

I get the student loan defaults, one of the largest growing sanfu's , simply following every other default[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KI8qvH2H8...C3th85yQ/s1600/student+loan+defaults.bmp[/img]

I get the HB1's problem allowing foriegn nationals to be placed in line ahead of American workers , because it is an instrument of abuse in and of itself



The regulations define a "specialty occupation" as requiring theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in a field of human endeavor[1] including but not limited to architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, biotechnology, medicine and health, education, law, accounting, business specialties, theology, and the arts, and requiring the attainment of a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent as a minimum[2] (with the exception of fashion models, who must be "of distinguished merit and ability".)[3] Likewise, the foreign worker must possess at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent and state licensure, if required to practice in that field. H-1B work-authorization is strictly limited to employment by the sponsoring employer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa



I don't buy that Americans won't or can't work hard or dirty

That supply side canard hoists itself upon it's own petard with so many contrary examples it's simply beyond unmitigated gall

what i do get is our trade will be affected , like all blue's will , by having to take less

but this disparity is unequitable, and some of you who are smart enough to follow the $$$ , and/or history know all too well the churning of those machinations

this becomes an important point , and worthy of consideration if you are a 'blue' , looking to sponsor a 'blue' , or having any respect of past , or procreation of future blues
~S~

This thread seems doomed to end badly. I'm going to close it now before it's too late.