ECN Forum
Posted By: harold endean Re: Tricks of trade - 04/17/11 06:34 PM
I don't know if this topic came up before, but I thought that I would throw out something to help my fellow EC's.

When my guys and I trimmed out a house, I made all men carried a level. The plates all had to be level. Nothing worse than seeing plates and light fixtures (Excuse me, Luminers) (I think I spelled that wrong, but I don't care)

I used to catch hell from GC's and HO's when the plates were crooked. So I made my guys finish off each 6-32 screw on the plates so the slot was up and down on each screw. This way when the painters took the plates off and screwed them back on all crooked, I could just look at the screws and know that someone took them off after we installed them.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Tricks of trade - 04/17/11 07:05 PM
My wife had one electrician who popped a chalk line down the wall before he set the boxes so they were all exactly the same height. He said it was faster than measuring each one and gave a better result.
Posted By: Obsaleet Re: Tricks of trade - 04/17/11 07:15 PM
I have done this and used my laser bob to get the 2 end the same. When I on a rough wire a use a piece of wood set to give me 18" orf to center. Same can be done for switches.

Ob
Posted By: Obsaleet Re: Tricks of trade - 04/17/11 07:20 PM
One of tricks is to use pieces of fish instead of the reel. 10 to 12' piece works great for down walls etc. than wire can be pulled up or down and the control is greater, not having a big clunky reel. I have 2 such cut and been using then for years. I do very little new work:)

Ob
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Tricks of trade - 04/17/11 07:28 PM
I like the string, chain and magnet idea for fishing down a wall. I have found a rare earth magnet (scavenged from a bad hard disk) epoxied to a short piece of fish tape or other stiff wire is good for poking around in the wall looking for the chain dropped down from the top.
Posted By: Trumpy Re: Tricks of trade - 04/17/11 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by gfretwell
My wife had one electrician who popped a chalk line down the wall before he set the boxes so they were all exactly the same height. He said it was faster than measuring each one and gave a better result.

Greg,
I've used a couple of pieces of 4" x 1" timber (one for socket-outlets, one for light switches) before as a "story stick" when fitting my flush-boxes, mark off the height with a pencil on the stud, fit the box.
Whenever I'm doing any sort of repetitive marking out, I've always used this method and always have a few scrap bits of wood or PVC conduit with me, it saves quite a bit of mucking around measuring things individually.
Posted By: schenimann Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 03:39 AM
I usually mark my can lights on the floor and use my laser level to shoot a mark on the ceiling. The laser level is a miracle tool. If I have a line down a hall where you can see if one is out a little I will pull a chalk line. I should get a level that shoots a line or a beam.
Posted By: Niko Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 04:19 AM
when i do remodels i chalk line the studs so all of the holes are at the same height, it looks better (even though it gets covered up), and make sure that all of the boxes are the same height. (receptacles at 12" CL and switches 48" CL)

Like Harold, all of my finish screws are vertical and if the cover plate is moved i will know.
Posted By: Tesla Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 05:45 AM
Ugh...

Our policy is to use 18 CL, 42 CL and 46 CL.

$ at 46 because of sheet rock and building code; 48 is the maximum upper bound permitted. Any foul up and it's on the electrician.

18 is easier to install, 12 is passe.

42 is for backsplashes such as bathrooms.

80 CL is for high mount TV, common in commercial settings.

-----

I use the schenimann technique going back years and years, I usually pull an offset and run string if the run is anything much.

I use jigs and fixtures to lay in can lights when dealing with a hard lid. This is normally done on the floor or table top -- and then the assy is brought to the location. What appears to be more effort ends up flying into the building with a dead-nuts alignment.

BTW, the string line for wall boxes is especially important in any situation where you know the floor is not level. This goes triple for kitchen remodels. The cabinet maker is going to shim his work UP so it is necessary to find the correct high point and snap from there.

Posted By: twh Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 05:47 AM
I run all my circuits from panel out, so if I'm interrupted I can go back and know that if the device has a wire it has a feed.

For bathroom wall lights, I mount a 2x4 behind where the light will be, horizontally, with the top at about the center of the light. Then, I take the switched circuit from the switch to the light and stub it out at the top of the 2x4. When I finish, I cut a pancake box in. It allows a couple of inches of movement if the vanity isn't exactly where I expected and when it's a long way off, I just have one wire to move and a small hole to patch.
Posted By: schenimann Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 01:35 PM
I lay out and mount all my boxes, cans, and drill my holes, etc day one. I have found that a lot of details are not thought of until the electrician starts to ask questions. "Where do you want to switch this from? How high? etc. There seems to be a lot of "Yea, I didn't thind of that." It takes a little bit to do it because there are usually a lot of questions for the gc or ho. When I am done though, I can run wire notstop and not have to wait for answers to where and how.

I have seen guys lay out, mount boxes, drill in a room or a circuit, then on to the next room. Constantly retooling.
Posted By: schenimann Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 01:38 PM
I know it isn't old school, but I also like my romex stapler. The operational costs is higher than hand staples, but man is it fast.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 02:22 PM
I used to use my hammer to set the receptacle box heights. The only problem with that is only 1 man can set the boxes unless all the hammers are the same height.

We did 48" to top of box for switches unless you are in the bathroom. You would be in the bull nose and screw up the tile.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Tricks of trade - 04/18/11 06:12 PM
When my wife was building houses she walked the customer through the house before the roughs and marked all of the optional things on the floor with marking paint (phone, cable, paddle fans, floor outlets, extra receptacles for entertainment centers etc). She also marked door swings so you don't end up with the switches on the wrong side. It was good for the trades but it was great for the customer to be able to walk through the house and "try" the switch locations before everything was buried behind drywall.
She still tried to get another walk out of them before the rock went up.
Posted By: wire_twister Re: Tricks of trade - 04/19/11 12:10 AM
Greg,
Your wife sounds like a dream to work for, I usually have to beg for info like that, especially door swings, if I get them they are normally drawn on the floor in pencil so if you dont drive the boxes fast it will be gone. i have just gone to using fan rated boxes in all the rooms so I dont get bit later when someone changes their mind and wants a fan where there was previously just a fixture. I would love to get out of the residential game and just do commercial/industrial, but I gotta eat!
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Tricks of trade - 04/19/11 06:34 AM
She always said, the easier she makes it for her trades, the better the house comes out.
It also goes faster and time was money in those days. Her bonus was based on "on time", "on budget" and "customer satisfaction". Early and under budget was an extra bonus. She liked to get the extra bonus.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Tricks of trade - 04/19/11 01:39 PM
Greg,

That was something that I did. Before I started to wire up a house, I would walk the customer through the house and give them all those options. I also told them that before we get to an area, they can change their mind, BUT once the area is wired, and changes would cost them. I would ask them questions like,, which side of the bed do you sleep on and who wants the Telco jack on their night stand. Plus did they use electric blankets and do you need extra recept. by the night stand.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Tricks of trade - 04/19/11 05:48 PM
In my house I put two 3 ways next to the bed, telco on both sides and quads where the night stands will go. You always end up with more than two things to plug in and you certainly do not want the plug behind the bed. One duplex in each quad is half hot with the other one on a 3 way. The other 3 way controls the ceiling light.

That has worked out great
Posted By: HotLine1 Re: Tricks of trade - 04/20/11 01:41 AM
Cut to size 2x wood used to set "BOB" (Bottom of box); lighting layout along with HVAC, sprinkler, audio, etc done on floor w/spray paint. We did comm work primarily.

Made arrangements with ceiling contractor for 'electricians drop wires' as it was more economical to have him do it. Found large diameter hole saws for recess cans in ceiling tiles. Mechanics creeper stool for installing receptacles. Mid-range metal detector was really useful to locate Walkerduct plugs & crossover covers.

Posted By: harold endean Re: Tricks of trade - 04/20/11 01:18 PM
Greg,

Above and behind my bed I installed a 2 circuit track & 2 lights. There is a switch by each side of the bed and I used low voltage track cans in the track. I also used very narrow spot beams in each can so that the beam of light shines on each person and doesn't spread too far into his/hers partners side of the bed.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Tricks of trade - 04/20/11 01:36 PM
Another trick we used when installing recess lights (Hi Hat Cans we called them.) You never know what is behind the ceiling if you are retro fitting on the first floor. So we would take a piece of #10 wire and bend into the shape of a "C" the top leg would be 1/2 the diameter of the can. For example a 8" can, we would bend the top piece of wire 4". Then we would use the height of the can say 6-8" and make that the middle part of the "C" on the wire. The bottom part of the "C" was what ever was left over.

We would make a small hole in the center of the can. Insert the 4" top part of the "C" into the whole and start spinning the "C" around. Now if you can make a 360 deg spin all the way around, then slowly raise and lower the "C" all the way up the 8", you would know that the cavity behind the ceiling was clear.

If you hit a floor joist, pipe, wire, etc. the spinning "C" would stop or make a metal sound (Ting)when you hit something like a pipe. We would check all the holes before cutting. This way if you hit something in one spot, you might have to relocate a whole string of cans to keep them in a row.
Posted By: harold endean Re: Tricks of trade - 04/20/11 01:40 PM
Another thought, we would keep all cut outs of dry wall circles until job was done. Every now and then a can would fall in the wrong place. We would use that piece to fill in the opening mistake, you just add a piece of strap behind the ceiling, screw the circle of drywall to the strap and tape around the hole.
Posted By: sparkyinak Re: Tricks of trade - 05/01/11 12:58 AM
I use blocks of scrap wood for box heights and string when alinement us critical like rows of lights. Floors are lot more level then top plates are straight. Did a show room once where ever other light was 4 foot track and the the rest was 4 foot wrap arounds. Add to the fun the lights ran at a 45 degree angle to the walls. Used string to rough in the boxes and to hang the lights. Everything was laser straight.
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