Now that arc fault breakers are required on all bedroom receptical circuits; can anyone tell me the reasoning behind this? I don't mind doing it, yet, I do like to know why I am doing this. Please help!

I'm not going to write this in UL terminology, but in plain english as "my humble opinion":
The requirements for arc fault devices probably are derived from statistacal data on causes of fires. It makes sense that if there is an arc in a bedroom near the beding there is a good possibility of a fire. This is the best logic that I can think of at this time. Possibly, in the near future arc fault devices will be required in other locations.

BTW, here in NJ, the arc fault requirement was not adopted, and is presently not in force.

John

GEC-1...it really depends who you talk to.....the story around here is..... the inventors spent a tonne of money on R&D on this breaker and when it went on to the market, nobody was biting. However, by approaching fire dept. and building inspectors, they made it law and let the dollars roll in!

Don't know how true this is, but if you ask me, I think Arc Faults are better served for older residential houses.

Here is my personal beef with AFCI's. They are required in bedroom circuits in case the occupant is sleeping. But what if a Arc related fire starts in the hallway receptacle on the other side of the bedroom receptacle? What if a arc related fire starts somewhere else in the house? and so on and so on.

The CPSC is making a proposal sweeping as it is that all revamps,of old construction, 120 volt circuits will have to be AFCI protected, this is for the 2005 code.

Hotline1 any reason why AFCIs were not adopetd in New Jersey ??

WOC

Now I have a reason for the arc faults. Here on GA. they are required in all bedroom recept. circuits. I guess different states adopt the NEC at different times. Thanks again all for the info!

Now here we go again.

I was just discussing this with a fellow Inspector and other electricians.

The electrician that I recently did a rough inspection for on a single family dwelling was under the impression that the arc fault breaker was only to protect the RECEPTACLE circuit.

The interpatation that we got was that all bedroom "outlets" were required to be arc fault protected.

This includes all 120V receptacles, lighting and SMOKE DETECTORS. (the smoke detector was the subject of our conversation.)

I even looked up some past topics and found this to be discussed before.

What do you guys say? Just receptacles or evrything that I listed above?

WV66, you do a lot of homes. What do you have to do?

I put in smoke detectors as per CABO, and Arc-faults as per 210.12 . The Greenbrier has spec'd for them on all dwellings started after 1-01-02, so the last dozen or so have AFCIs, including the one I wired last summer.

The detectors are powered from the first bedroom AFCI circuit, and all bedroom lights, including closets, are also on the AFCI for each bedroom respectively.

The Greenbrier also specs for #12 minimum, so they're all 20A circuits.

Bear in mind, no inspections here, except for the PoCo. This is how I do it, but I'm not "made" to do it, other than my own conscience,



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-26-2002).]

No inspections here.

My understanding is that if an area ( municipality) has adopted a code such as the NEC, an actual inspection is not required, but the installation MUST be installed per the adopted code or be at least as the minimun of the adopted code.

i attended an NEC 2002 training course earlier this year, and the instructor told us that:
1. Historically, more fires started in bedrooms.
2. That extension cords were used more, by far, in bedrooms. ($1.99 cheapo #16 or #18 types)
3. That bedding combustibility was a big concern. (someone rolls over, or throws off a blanket or comforter)

Sandro - i agree with you, why just the bedrooms? i predict that all breakers will have AFCI protection in the future. could save a lot of lives - especially in older buildings if retrofitted.

And the price will come down when they are mass produced.

I remember when the first VCRs cost $5000.00.

Ed

Electric-Ed this makes me wanna ask, how are they being produced now. ??
No doubt if the 2005 code changes to the suggested proposal that all services old and new install AFCI protection for all 120 volt circuits, as proposed by the CPSC then the cost of installation will really go up. I havent looked at the numbers yet but a GFCI breaker is about 27.50 and the AFCIs are almost 40.00. It sounds pricey to me.
WC

Replies:
Wocolt:
The political powers that be at our stste capital did not adopt the NEC section re: AFCI.
Our state has a "Uniform Construction Code" that consists of various national codes that are utilized within NJ. For each "Code" that is adpoted, there are various amendments, the AFCI requirement being one of them.
BTW, we are still under the '99 NEC, as the State did not adopt the '02 NEC as of today. They have been saying "any day now" for quite some time. Hopefully, they will act soon.

GWZ:
Interesting, your area "adopted" the NEC, but you have no inspections? What is the assurance that everyone "follows" the Code???

John

Virgil,

I thought that WV started requiring inspections. I know that Morgantown has thier own city inspector and that outside of the city you have to get an inspection agency.

I am allowed to inspect in WV, especially anywhere in Allegheny Power's service area.

I know that your in southern WV but I thought this was state-wide. Whats the rule?

M'66,

That would be great news!?!?

City of Lewisburg has a building inspector, but other than Allegheny Power, Nada as far as I know!

Right now, Greenbrier County has actually regressed from requiring a building permit, to some grey area between no requirement and just "over-looked" law. The controversy started when someone realized that Greenbrier County provided no service for their fees, and either had to provide inspections (as a service) or drop the permit requirement. It is still in limbo, as doesn't look real good for any inspection requirements in the near future.

My worth as a local EC would practically double if it happened.

Has anyone else run into vacuums or power tools causing nuisance trips?

I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has been using AFCI breakers. In RI the code requiring the use of AFCI was just pass last fall. After many discussions with the local inspectors about installing these breakers on existing circuits, AFCI breakers are not going to be required on revamps. As I understand how these breakers work, they need a dedicated neutral as does a GFI. The problem being, a revamp with existing wiring would be impossable to estimate without testing all the neutrals first. I was also told by a factory rep. at a local trade show, in Sept, that a split wired AFCI breaker would soon be available, which would be another problem with a revamp of a service containing a split wired circuit. I also asked if a AFCI receptacle was in the R&D works and the answer was not to his knowledge. One final note on AFCI, at the same trade show this factory rep. had a demonstration setup trying to show how effective these breaker were. First he would cut through a live piece of zip cord with a razor blade, protected by a standard 15 AMP breaker. There was a flash, breaker tripped and a small burn hole in the razor blade. Now the same test with a AFCI breaker, huge flash and the better part of the razor blade was missing. Needless to say I do not have a lot of confidence in these new breakers.

This is very interesting.
Did the factory rep mention anything about failure rates for these afcis, and why it would take so much longer to trip than a standard breaker.
I read somewhere that SQ-D QO breakers open in one cycle or 16.667 mili-seconds. and also that the AFCIs open in approx 8 cycles or 133 miliseconds. All things being equal this is still very fast. In real terms about 3 blinks of an eye.
When I first read about the afci technology the idea was that on 15 and 20 amp breakers there could be sustainable faults of less than 20 amps say 5, 10 15 amps, this was in the EC & M magizine, and these devices were to pick up these arching fault and open the breaker. Now that doesnt seem to be the case.
From what I have been reading is that there must be a sustainable 75 amp Arc for the app.8 cycles before the breaker will open up.
again all things being equal, it would take 6-10 times 20 to trip a standard breaker in less than a cycle.
So what are we looking at here a very selective devive ?

From what you describe the standard breaker opens faster than the afci under that kind of fault.
It doesnt sound like the factory rep had much faith in afci s.
What was his opinion ?

WOC