run 60 feet of 3/4 emt with lots of kicks and 90's into a live main breaker panel

insert fish tape at device end of run until resistance is felt

jam fish tape repeatedly

check panel

1/4 inch from mains!

it was the easiest pushing tape I've ever felt. I kept waiting for it to hit a connector but never did.

lesson learned.

anyone else?

DUGMAZE,
did you tape up the fish end?

You are a lucky man.But its alot safer to not gamble.When pushing a fishtape into a live panel,it's best to remove the locknut,and install a rigid coupling, with a plug in one end, in the locknuts place.When the tape stops moving,remove the coupling to see if it is there,if fishtape is there, reinstall locknut and bushing.

I have to say no. I never pushed a steel fish tape into a live panel without taking precaution, either someone on panel end with wood blocking the buss bar, or not using a fish tape and vacuum in a line.

txsparky: I like that method with the coupling and plug.

[This message has been edited by Wirenuttt (edited 12-05-2002).]

I did it once. I pushed a wound steel "Sparks" fish into a live panel and hit the main lugs. The other guy was supposed to have the pipe covered with a piece of cardboard, but for some reason that didn't work out. There was a big arc, and a piece of paper with the panel schedule which we had shoved behind the main feeder caught on fire. Very stupid, I'll admit.

DUGMAZE,

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How about pushing it into the wrong hole?

What happens when you push 150ft of your snake in a 100ft run of pipe with a live panel on the other end?

Just to find chunks of the snake on the floor after repeatedly being blown to pieces after hitting the main lugs......

Talk about a comedy show....

Hitting a live terminal with a steel fishtape in EMT makes an unforgettable noise.

txsparky, perfect idea, will do next time! Thanks

When I worked for a fairly large company some years back, a crew leader was sent out to our job to keep him busy. The job was in an existing plant, and we were adding circuits to a 400A 480/277 power panel in IMC. The guy was going to show us how slow we were, so he shoved a steel fishtape into that hot panel by himself. Cardboard over the lugs saved him momentarily, until he pulled the cardboard away, then lost his grip on the tape. The tape hit the B phase on the buss, and the resulting arc flash crisped his hair and eyebrows (no glasses for him!), made his sweatshirt smolder, blackened the front of his hardhat, and the plasma from the arc cascaded into the A and C phases on the buss, melting all three together. Dropped out the mains in the switchgear, then the substation mains for the building. The electric utility called the head engineer to ask why they just saw a 250KA spike on their meters for the line serving the building.

I kinda felt sorry for the guy, (he was relatively unhurt) but he was really shellshocked from the blast. Still, he had been warned twice to wait for someone to get freed up to help him before he ran the tape. He just had to prove how much better of crew leader he was than we were.

Whoa!

Just today I was making up a panel (no fish tape invovled) and the bare EGC on the Romex I was feeding in touched the main bus and kapow! It sounded like a 30.06! My helper, Jimmy, came running down the stairs with eyes wide and wild, and said he saw the arc flash upstairs! He said he knew I was alright because he could hear me cursing... Man, and I've intended to start watching my language more!

The GE bus has flanges that prevent a 240V short, so it was only at 120V, the resulting shockwave was enough to whip the EGC into my shirt (it actually stung a little) and it sounded like a breaker tripped right after the initial blast, but none had. I guess the EGC had whipped around enough to bang against something.

Didn't get burned or shocked, surprisingly since I had hold of the entire cable with both hands at the time. Not real sure where it had grounded itself. By the sound of it, I may have gotten into both poles (across 240V), but I couldn't find any evidence of it.

With Jimmy wild eyed, I took the opportunity to say:

1) It only takes one mistake and
2) We're dealing with some pretty serious power even at 120V.

I think it got his attention.

Glad you didn't get hurt, 66! Probably a good warning for Jimmy though. Maybe we should get the address for your insurance agent?

All strong cases for a fiberglass fish.

I must admit that I too have shortened up a steel fishtape.

GJ

[This message has been edited by golf junkie (edited 12-06-2002).]

66,
Quote
He said he knew I was alright because he could hear me cursing...
LOL
Scott

Virgil,
a few expletive deletives while blowing yourself up should'nt be a prob

<warning-do not try this at home>

slight variation on the fishtape story, but end result is the same.

The boss and myself are pulling new runs of THHN in through a 2" EMT that was jam packed with old TW. We shut down as many of the old circuits as possible but some had to be left on.
So we pulled very carefully and wore gloves. The pulling went fine with not much resistance, until the THHN was almost into the gutter, when suddenly, I heard BAM! and saw a flash from several rooms away!
Sure enough, on the final tug, the boss pulled too hard and jammed one of the TW's into the sharp bushing-less connector,
causing a nice explosion.
The day was pretty much crap from then on.


[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 12-06-2002).]

66wv mentioned "It sounded like a 30.06"

That reminded me of the time, back in the fifties, my helper and I were finishing up a rewire job in an old house that originally had a 110 volt, 2-wire service. All the old K&T was the same dirty color, you couldn't tell white from black.

While I connected the GEC to the water main, my helper was installing jumpers from the old "service" (just a porcelain fuse block) to temporarily feed the new service.

Down in the semi-dark basement, I cleaned the water pipe, bolted on the ground clamp, stripped the end of the GEC, and, straining to see in the dark, inserted the end of the wire into the clamp.

KA-BOOM and a blinding flash.

My helper had gotten the hot and neutral mixed up.

Ed

How many times ? just once!!!!!!

In a rendering plant (very noisy) many years ago. I was the helper with my hand over the end of the pipe while my boss pushed the fishtape in (on scaffold in another room).We had worked together a few years so we had a system for doing this or so I thought. It hit my hand pretty hard and he stopped pushing and I waited for awhile and then was just taking my hand away when I heard it going again. The resulting flash and BOOM had to be heard to be believed. Then things got real quiet as the 800amp 480 volt breaker tripped feeding this panel. I had a new appreciation for electricity and after some personal cleanup:> ) was ready to go again.

still seeing stars,

Glenn

I haven't had the experience of doing this
[reserve my SCA tests for other areas ],
But have seen others do it a few times! Seen it first hand [as others were pulling into hot panel] and seen the result [as being called in to fix resulting problems or find out whaddaheckhappened!!!].

I've been very fortunate so far and haven't had this problem occur when pulling into hot panels [I am the guy at the panel! Will not put someone else in a potential hazard situation].

To minimize risks, I made some custom shield covers.

Need to create more pulling / cover items for panels. If I only had access to a CNC Machine, these could be precision items!!!

Another "Virtual Reality" item on my PC[s]!
VR being "AutoCAD Reality"

Scott s.e.t.

You know, speaking of that distinctive BOOM (and ROAR for the big stuff) when hots and grounds connects, I swear you only have to hear that once to have that burned into your memory. After that one time, you can hear that from some distance off, and know EXACTLY what that noise was. Almost an erie feeling...

for some reason, the old ditty about "old" electricians and "bold" electricians just popped into my head...

I do not know which is a louder sound
1) the fish tape hitting the main or
2) the dropped screwdriver crossing the buss
I have a screwdriver that I show newbe's that was 8" long Its now about1 1/2" long.

I usually have my spotter available at the panel. Or simply remove the Meter.

'66

I well remember my third day on the job. I was as green as they come, and cocky with my two, count'em, two, years of coll-idge in lek-trick engineerin'.

I followed along with my boss to a short order resturant in downtown Fremont, NE. The service was rather heavily loaded and would occasionally lose a 200 amp main fuse. This resturant was 1/4 mile down a fat conductored 2400 volt line from the downtown coal burning PoCo. The service location used to be at the back of the resturant, but a dining room addition had been added and the service was left unchanged, but was now enclosed in a 3' x 3' closet. The bottom of the 200 Amp fused safety switch service disconnect was seven feet above the floor.

So. . .Paul has me get the 4' ladder and steady it for him. He climbs up on it, with his shoulders against the wall above the door and his head in the cobwebs, and he proceeds to use his "pry bar screwdriver" to tighten the lugs on the line side of the disconnect. The driver slipped off and was jammed into the case and I hit the floor. I glanced back as I heard, even above the ringing in my ears from the arc, this HUM-M-M-M-M and I saw that Paul had crouched while still on the ladder, leaving the driver welded to the lug and the case. As I watched, he took stock of the situation, reached up and batted the driver with his arm, breaking it free and releasing another enormous shower of molten metal.

I was jumping with adrenalin.

Paul very calmly got down and retrieved his driver, examined it and then complained about the poor quality of tools these days.

I was hooked.

Al.

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 12-08-2002).]

Many years ago I took a short call for a contractor who was installing a panel in a very noisy food processing plant. It was summertime and his kid was on summer break from high school. So dad made him come to work for the day. It was more like babysitting to keep the kid out of trouble. As it was quite obvious that the kid did not want to be there. We were going to be pulling in the mains so the panel was still completely dead. I was unrolling and measuring off the cable, The contractor told his son to go stand by the panel and let him know when the fishtape he was pushing in came out of the pipe. You would think this would be a simple job for any newbie.

It was a brand new 1/8" fishtape that his dad was pushing into the pipe. I'm sure you know how springy a new fishtape is. It still has that perfect curl to it and a very sharp hook at the end. Junior begrudgingly moped over to the room where the panel was and stood around in front of it, not paying any attention. The kid couldn't hear the tape coming through the pipe, so he didn't wake up from his daydreaming when the tape emerged upward from the underground conduit. What did wake him up was when the perfect curl of the steel directed the hook right up his nose!!!!!! It then hooked on his adnoid and he couldn't remove it! We could hear him screaming over the sound of the machinery. Blood was everywhere. His dad, who was a real looser himself, was pissed that he had to cut the end off his brand new fishtape and take his son to the clinic to get it removed.

Pearl;
ROTFLMAO, That has got to be the best story ever told on this site. I could picture the whole thing while I read it.

If anyone sees you short the fish tape, jut tell them you are getting the factory smoke out of their panel
I had almost same scenario, 480v critical panel in hospital remodel, At least I was in flashing distance of medical care !! he he ,
seriously, I think we should be more careful as electricians. We get kind of complacent because we work with it everyday. I ask GOD to guide my hands each day I work with electricity. I have lost a buddy to carelessness with electricity. Stupid Suicide cord. Be careful out there , guys!
ANd have a merry christmas

Pearlfish
the trade went to his head !
~lol ~

1 out of 12...... 1 out of 12....

please respond to boy with fish impaled in nasal cavity....

Pearlfish,
Is that how the whole body piercing fad got started?

ElectricAl, If that didn't scare you away, nothing will!



Lots of funny stories here! And with great lessons.

More! More!

Body piercing,

That reminds me of a story I was told when I first started about a newbie on a ladder. Seems his foreman was pushing the fishtape in the pipe through the wall into the back of a 1900 box. The newbie had his face right in front of the box and looked away for a minute when the fish came thru.The fish hit the corner of his eye and when he jerked his head back it hooked him thru the eyelid.

Honest!!!!!

He later quit the electrical field and entered the ministry and officiated at my wedding a few years later..


Ya never know,

Glenn

Last time I did that alone I learned how quickly a fish tape can turn into a heating element (as it welded across the lugs). It burned off as I was heading out the door at a rapid pace. Never did that again. Ahhhh... how dumb we once were.

I almost had a fish tape incident. But i have this story to tell.
I just started school (electrical ) my first semester. Thought i knew what i was doing. any way to make the story short i tried to push in a burned breaker into a panel that had the bus bar burned because of loose connection. Any way as i pushed on to this breaker the bus bar shorted in the back to the to the box and bam. My face was burned,eye lashes gone,eye brows gone,left and right hand burned had my right eye closed for 2 days with a patch. cost me $1500 emergency hospital bill.

I think that the paper insulation that is placed between the busbar and the panel box was gone i mean lost its integraty over the years.

because of the above incident i have to wear eye glasses all the time now.
I thank god every time that i go infront of a panel because eyeglasses are better than no eye sight i could have gotten molton metal at about 5000 degree in my eyes.

That's all folks.
Edward

I'm glad I found this confessional ... er, uhh, forum!

I was pulling new THHN into a 3/4 EMT with older (thick) plastic insulation on it. After "finding" the requisite hidden boxes above the dropped ceiling, I was pulling my steel tape through, with the (new) circuits I was working on dead, the others live, so as not to interfere with the rest of the house.

Long story short(ened), hook got snagged, cleaned some of the insulation off the in-place 12 AWG, and ZZZOTTT... remote control lights - "off" only!

Hadda pull in a new 12... and finally convinced the wife I needed the nylon 100 foot snake!

I was once working a job in a huge commercial complex that had it's own privately controlled sub-stations. We had to pull some cables into one of the existing HV cabinets. Everything in the cabinet that could be de-energized was, and everything else was thoroughly wrapped in hot-blankets. Still hairy work, but it was as safe as it could be made with the power on.

I didn't know much about what was going on, I was just the new-guy there to help with the cable pulling. The foreman points out a set of conduits in an adjacent room and we start to push the tape into one of 'em. We're pushing and pushing, we can hear the guys in the next room:
"Keep coming, it's getting close... Come on... Come on..."
So we keep feeding the tape in until all of the sudden we just hear a bunch of exclamations and one of the guys in the other room just starts screaming:
"STOP STOP STOP STOP!"
They come running over from next door:
"You guys need to set that tape down as carefully as possible and get the hell out of there..."

Well, come to find out the foreman had mistakenly picked the wrong set of pipes for us to fish.

We walked into the switch-gear room to see that 1/4 band of steel had come up through an empty conduit in the base of one of the energized cabinets and had wound it's way deep into the 13,800 volt buses switching mechanisms. Somehow, it had failed to contact a single energized part and the only side-effect was I was a good bit more jumpy for the rest of that day.

We had to get a crew out to denergize the entire sub-station before the cabinet could be opened and the fish-tape removed.

-John

I use this method when Ive got a new wire pull. At the panel,screw on to the t a ,a trc with a threaded plug.For 1/2 and 3/4 runs a bell plug.

I can't say I haven't seen my share of disintegrated fishtape leaders from people shoving them into hot bus.. This seems to mostly happen to some of the service guys who go out on mini-installs solo... Usually they're hooking up a piece of equiptment in a plant or commercial building where turning power off, would more than likely, be cause to send everyone home... We tend to give these kinda jobs to the service "teams" vs. the stand alone guys now, this being one of the reasons

Haven't done the fish tape thing. The first man I worked for taught me well on that. But I will share my first experiance with how powerfull electriciy is and what it will do.
I'd been in the trade about a year. We went to a sheet metal shop and installed a sub panel about 150' from the main panel. As we were finishing up my boss told me to put the cover on the sub-panel, clean up and load the truck and meet him at the coffee shop. He was going to meet a contractor and would see me there. When I started to put the cover on I noticed the screw in the center at the top was loose, had never been tightened and the top of the box was loose from the wall. Can't have that and I reached in with a screwdriver but couldn't get to the screw because of the feeders. I went to pry the feeders apart just a little and boom. I cowered down off a short step ladder back into a corner I thought was safe. I couldn't see a thing as the blast about blinded me. After a short time I got my vision back and went back to the panel. I had blown about six inches of the feeder cable away. I moved the panel up about 8" on the wall to where the feeders were long enough to hook back up put the cover on the panel, loaded the truck and went to the coffee shop. My boss was about furious and was about to come looking for me. Why in the Hell would it take over an hour to put a cover on and get the tools in the truck. I showed him what was left of my screwdriver and asked him if I could get another one next time we got supplies. Needless to say I was the talk of the coffee shop for several days. HEY, you hear what that dumbass kid working for Jones done?