ECN Forum
Posted By: EV607797 Possible scam alert - 10/20/08 11:45 PM
This past Friday, a gentleman came to my warehouse door because he saw that we had some empty wooden cable reels in the yard. He asked if he could buy them for $30.00 each. Of course I would have been happy if he took them away for free, but a few extra bucks sure wouldn't hurt.

He claimed to be a representative of a very poor American Indian tribe from Arizona. He said that things are so bad there that he goes around to larger cities seeking scrap wood and metal to help his community. He asked if he could come in and take a look around to see if we had anything else that we were looking to get rid of and promised to pay top dollar. I had lots of short pieces of cable, old phone equipment, etc. that I was happy to get rid of, especially since he would come in and move it out himself. After having looked around, he found enough "junk" and made me an offer of $500.00 for the entire lot, cash. He also showed me a wad of $100.00 bills that had to have been at least $5,000.00. While he proceeded to load up his truck, I went outside and jotted down his tag number (sure enough, it was an Arizona plate). He also showed me his driver's license, also from Arizona.

He claimed that they recycle this material and use the proceeds to help fund the schools on the reservation. Since he was paying about twice what my local recycler pays, I saw it as a win-win situation. Still, in the back of my mind, I saw this as being too good to be true.

He had a very nice rig, a fairly new GMC 6500 series 5th wheel truck and about a 30' enclosed flatbed trailer. He was only able to take about half of what he wanted to take and gave me $200.00 cash with the promise that he'd be back bright and early to get the rest and pay for the balance. Most of what he took on Friday was the valuable stuff, like copper.

He didn't show up today and he's not answering his cell phone. At this point, I'm probably out about $200.00 for what he took on Friday. Since much of this stuff had no value to me, I'm not too terribly worried about. In hindsight, I do think that he ended up paying me about 2/3 of what he should have for what he took.

I suppose that he may still show up today and that he may be legitimate. I just have to wonder if maybe I fell for something that may come back to bite me later. I did take his cash to the bank and confirmed that the two $100.00 bills were not fakes. Maybe I'm just being a bit overly-cautious at this point, but something just doesn't add up in my mind.

If this guy shows up in your area (he claims to go nationwide), be sure to complete the transaction on the spot. Like I said, most of what he took was wasting valuable space, so in a way I'm glad that he came. I still can't help but wondering just exactly what he's up to.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Possible scam alert - 10/20/08 11:47 PM
Well, it does look as if I got scammed. He never came back and doesn't answer his cell phone. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and waited all day. I get the generic voice mail message for a cell phone mailbox that hasn't been set up.

Anyway, he agreed to pay me $500.00 for the lot, took most of it on Friday, paid $200.00 as a deposit with the promise of returning today for the rest and paying the remaining $300.00. The rest of the lot has NO value whatsoever.

I'm still not truly out anything since what he paid me is about what my regular recycler would have paid anyway. It's just the deceptive approach. Don't go around using the name and heritage of American Indian tribes and their underprivileged reservations and children in the name of scamming a few bucks. I'd have probably handed him a few bucks if he had just asked for a donation.

If he'd just offered me $200.00, I'd have probably taken it. I have now paid someone to neatly pile up the rest of the junk he said he wanted for nothing. He basically got away with about $300.00 worth of scrap copper for $200.00 on a handshake.

The guy represents himself as Mike Lee, about 5'-8", obviously American Indian with an Arizona accent. The cell phone number that he gave me is 720-982-5055. His truck's tag number is Arizona CE-04390. This is just a heads-up in case he comes to your neck of the woods.

BTW: He wasn't claiming that he was taking the stuff back to Arizona. He claimed that he was purchasing and processing it locally and sending the money back to the reservation. I would never have believed that he was driving that rig back and forth across the country for scrap. Well, actually I did think he was that dumb until I realized that I was the dumber one.
Posted By: BigB Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 03:27 AM
Strange......

But I am curious about one thing Ed.... You said he had an Arizona accent. I've lived here in AZ most of my life and didn't realize we had an accent! I guess it's all relative.
Posted By: BigB Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 03:30 AM
Just thought of something else, maybe he is up to something bigger.....you had better notify your suppliers.
Posted By: jdevlin Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 01:29 PM
Extra security. He may be coming back - this weekend after hours.
Posted By: EV607797 Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by BigB
Strange......

But I am curious about one thing Ed.... You said he had an Arizona accent. I've lived here in AZ most of my life and didn't realize we had an accent! I guess it's all relative.


It's kind of hard to describe; not a strong accent like someone from New York City or Atlanta either. More of a Midwestern accent where "O's" are very strongly pronounced. He definitely had that look and sound of a true American Indian if that makes any sense.
Posted By: mikesh Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 03:44 PM
Since the scrap actually came to what you would have gotten I guess that panned out and you got some more space but like the others i am concerned that he was shopping for treasure that might be available after hours. Time to rent the dog and install the alarm. Now you are out more than $200 with security fees. Add a Lock or two too.
Second I might report it to the police just in case the scam goes deeper.
The greatest probability is he got what he wanted and you actually got what you would have so no real harm but the concern that a shady deal has opened you to the possibility of worse to come.
Posted By: JValdes Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 04:31 PM
We see this all the time here in Upstate SC. Same exact scenario, except with a different twist. The guy I came in contact with said they use the copper for Indian jewelry that they sell on the reservation. They don't rip people off, they are taught how to buy everything from transformers to wire by just looking. No weighing. They flash a wad of cash and offer top dollar. But what they are actually doing is getting the copper for less than you would get if you used a re cycler. I know several motor shops that use them. They can look at a pile of magnet wire that has been burned and know what to offer and what it is really worth. Then they take that to your re cycler and make money. They are very persistent and scary sometimes. But we have found out they are just so good at estimating, they can make money off most anybody.

The only reason some shops deal with them is so they do not need a metal bin and they still get a few bucks, even though it is less than they would get from a reputable scrap yard.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 04:33 PM
It is quite possible that he simply overestimated what you had and after cherry picking out the best stuff he just bailed with what he had. I had the same thing happen to me with stuff I was just giving away. It took 3 different people to get a couple hundred CMUs and a stack of rebar out of here. (2 guys who wanted block/rebar and a scrapper) I still have a stack of pallets to get rid of.
Posted By: GA76JW Re: Possible scam alert - 10/21/08 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by gfretwell
I still have a stack of pallets to get rid of.


You may want to call around on those first. The GC on our job says he gets $3 for every pallet that is in good shape. I found this out only after I had a few in the back of the pickup truck I was throwing away. You should have seen him sprint across the job. One man's trash......
Posted By: wire_twister Re: Possible scam alert - 11/09/08 02:39 PM
Had three Indian fellows(East Indian not Native American Indian) call me and ask if I had any electrical equipment or wire to sell. I told him I had a little wire and alot of used equipment, so he wanted to look at it.

When he got to the shop he quickly looked at the equipment, consisting of a mix of condulets, contactors, fuse holders, disconnect switches, etc. He made an offer on the equipment then proceded to talk about the wire, we struck a deal on the wire, he asked to pay me half now, take the wire and pay the balance when he returned to get the rest. I told him he could pay half, and load half, this is not what he wanted, he paid the entire ammount for the wire, loaded up, left and I havent heard from him yet.

These guys also had a nice looking rig F-350 crew cab, powerstroke diesel, triple axle trailer. The truck and trailer had a Florida tag. Before he left I asked him how he got my phone number, he showed me a 4 page print out from Google where he had searched for electricians and plumbers.

I feel sure he was ready to make off with whatever he could, while two of the guys were loading the wire out of my shop one guy kept trying to get me and my partner out of the shop, we did not fall for that either. He liked to use distraction, first he wanted to talk politics, then talk about fishing, or anything else he could come up with. I told him I wanted to talk about lost labor money while I was waiting on him, he got the point.
I guess with times being so tough people will do anything they can to get over on you.
Posted By: BlackwaterComm Re: Possible scam alert - 03/24/14 08:58 PM
We had a guy show up late last year asking about the same type of scrap. He was using the story that he took it all back to the American Indians in Colorado, and they used it to make and sell trinkets.

Same scenario, he talked a big game about buying the reels, pallets and scrap. He showed a lot of interest in a large quantity of batteries (these are used for emergency power in cellular applications) that I was storing for a customer. I told him that they were slated for jobs, and were not for sale, but he kept on and on about them.

He picked out a bunch of the higher ticket items, Copper and Aluminum, and promised to come back the next day when he had more time to get the pallets and reels.

In the end, he only paid a fraction of what he offered for the whole lot, and he never showed back up.

About 4 days later, our compound was broken into and about $30,000.00 worth of Batteries were stolen. We gave all the information we had on him to the Police, which wasn't much, and he was never found.

Today, the same guy shows back up!!!! Since we can't prove that he stole the batteries, we took down his license plate number, and talked him into giving us his phone number (his number is how I found this post). I had one of my guys taking pics of his truck and trailer, when he saw that, he got pretty upset and left in a hurry.

If I were you, I would take measures to make sure you protect you materials. I don't know if this guy ripped us off or not, but it sure seemed coincidental. He was the only one that I can think of that had knowledge of those batteries in our yard. You couldn't see them from the street.

We are turning over all his info to the Police, and we'll see where it goes from there.
Posted By: gfretwell Re: Possible scam alert - 03/24/14 10:46 PM
These days video is getting so cheap that I would have cameras running 24/7 looking at anything worth stealing.
Spend the extra money to get good cameras. Look at your pictures and be sure they are good enough to be used in court. (read tag numbers etc)
Posted By: Tesla Re: Possible scam alert - 03/25/14 01:16 AM
Based upon experiences...

I just don't allow outsiders to view my assets -- tools or materials.

Such episodes invariably carry the risk that you're dealing with a 'shopper.'

As for the police, crimes against business property are dead last in their priority stack -- regardless of how obvious the criminals have been and how much evidence you have.

BTW, the cops, themselves, mightly resent the fact that they have to fill out even more paperwork because you permitted a property crime to be committed against you. These are normally filled out in pencil or pen -- and go on and on. Only one in a thousand will ever be useful in court.

The courts do not permit cops to delegate report writing. This is established case law, FYI. It's why no police department ever sends over a steno to take your facts down.

The number one reason that cops retire early: they cant' stand to write up another crime report.(!)

The paperwork is scarcely shown in crime dramas -- TV or film.

The only film to touch it realistically was "The Other Guys." (Which is pretty funny, BTW.)
Posted By: renosteinke Re: Possible scam alert - 03/25/14 02:02 AM
I've been following electrical forums for maybe 15 years now - how time flies! - and this scam comes up fairly regularly.

What amazes me is how similar the pitches are- it's like these guys all went to the same scam college.

Tesla's right, of course. No sense letting just anyone see everything. I usually arrange things so there is an entry area, a foyer, that allows someone in, but contains them to a small, bland area. Here is where first contact is made. Every now and again, I get someone visiting on some pretext or other that practically gives themselves whiplash trying to see further into the business.

Ever known for my tact, I've asked at that point if they're looking for something to steal - and send them packing.

Once I had such a person enter, and it taught me all I needed to know. The gent came in 'looking for work,' then asked to use the restroom. Soon after, he was found in the shop, wheeling a trash can full of our tools out the rear. Lesson learned: See them off, and make sure they leave!

It's also why reception gets pretty frosty, pretty quick, the moment the story starts changing. Are you looking for work, a bathroom - or your next victim?

The second thing that rings my "crook alarm" is when I find myself considering a complete stranger my best friend, within minutes of meeting them h first time. I learned this from meth-heads; their social skills are phenomenal. Lower your guard and lose- fast!
© ECN Electrical Forums