I was pricing this book (I want to get a copy someday) and it's like 60$ to 70$.

I realize this is an essential reference tool for electricians and anyone else who makes their living doing electrical work and also this is what pays for the research, printing, writing, etc. that goes into this thing.

But what about all the DIY mangle-jobs we see and complain about?

Do you think it would help if there were a cheap book (or even free access to the NEC on the web?) so that these people can look up the proper way to do things?

I have seen some modestly-priced books (even some sold here on ECN) that explain the proper way to do residential/commercial wiring.

But the problem with some of these books is that they explain different methods of doing the same thing (depends on the author and some, like the Home Depot series can be suspect in some areas) and sometimes you don't know which is the PROPER way to do it (do you twist solid conductors together before putting the wire nut on or not, is an example?).

What do you think?

Dude, I only paid about $35 for the NEC...

Seems to be getting cheaper, even when they moved to the larger format in '99, it was actually $5 cheaper than the '96 I bought!

BTW, I'm not an NFPA member either, so I go no discount.

What are the rest of you paying for a copy?

There is no way that the NEC will become free. The income from the sale of the NEC and related products provides the cash to support the NFPA.
Don

Hmmm.......I wouldn't mind free access to the NEC. After all, it is a safety document that should be readily available.

However, I think a lot of untrained people would have trouble understanding and using the NEC.

On the other hand, I would support all the NEC rules that pertain to residential situations available in a "cheap book" that you speak of. Said book would have the NEC rules followed by an explanation of them, much the same as Mike Holt's "Understanding the NEC" series.

I agree, many DIY books are suspect or just downright bad. I love the ones that show you how to strip solid wire with a pocket knife. The only DIY books that I can recommend are Black and Decker's "Advanced Wiring" and Rex Cauldwell's "Wiring a House."

Someday, I would like to go to Borders or wherever, buy every DIY book on the rack, and highlight all the errors that I can find in them.

BTW, I only paid $40 for my copy of the '99 at a supply house "counter special."

I think the versions available through the NFPA cost more, do they not?

Don,

I am not at all familiar with the inner workings of the NFPA. Are they a non-profit org?

[This message has been edited by CTwireman (edited 11-25-2002).]

Why not have medical books at home, so you can do open heart surgery on your relatives to save a few more bucks.

I can't prove it, but I remember in ~1997 a small municipality in Texas published the text of one edition of the NEC on the 'net, based on the idea that it should be public/legal without charge. Seems an injunction/restraining order made it through the system in record time.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 11-25-2002).]

CT,
Yes, the NFPA is a private nonprofit organization. The money from the sale of the NEC supports all of the other codes that they develop. Very few of the other codes have enough sales to cover the costs of developing them.
Don

I keep seeing the analogy of DIY surgery and DIY electrical work. This is not a fair analogy. How many of you take asprin for a headache without consulting your doctor? Apply a bandage? Many people are capable of doing code compliant, minor electrical work. Obviously there is a gray area where the DIY should hire a professional depending on their abilities, just as you make the decision as to whether or not to get that cut stitched up. Not all electrical work is heart surgery.

- les

>I love the ones that show you how to strip
>solid wire with a pocket knife.

Could you elaborate a bit on this? Are you saying that there is a problem with it or that it is so basic that no instruction is needed?

The problem with stripping wire with a pen knife is you wind up nicking the conductor and making gouges in it (which makes it thinner and increases the electrical resistance at that point). It also physically weakens it.

In a pinch I've used very sharp razor blades to strip 18-gauge zip cord (for lamps)...and I've gotten good at it where I don't cut any strands along with the rubber sheath.

But the proper way to strip wire is to use a stripper set to the correct gauge. (Also there are some T-strippers that are made for solid wire and some for stranded).

So? This is more of a problem with stranded wires where you will lose a few strands. A little scarring of the wire - who cares? It's damaged by the terminal screw or wire nut anyway.

C-H,

I agree, it's not a huge issue. However, I have seen some well-intentioned DIYers severly damage solid wire by stripping it with a knife. I just think that inexpensive T-strippers do a much better and faster job.

BTW, Many electricians use their linesman's pliers to strip wire, which can do just as much damage as a knife. Obviously, linesmans are not designed to strip wire.

note to Wirenuttt,
i'll bring my anatomy book if you bring your linesmans.....

>I just think that inexpensive T-strippers
>do a much better and faster job.

I have bought one or two inexpensive wire strippers, but found that they are of poor quality. (Surprise!) Sure, expensive quality stripper work like magic, but would you expect a D-I-Y to buy one?

Seeing an electrician at work make me go "Hey, how did he do that? He started two seconds ago and now all wires are stripped and ready!" I still haven't gotten the outer sheet off...

It's just practice, and developing a method the one feels comfortable with.

Some sparkies prefer end-action wirestrippers, others prefer the side-action type.

Using a dull knife while penciling off the insulation, is the best way.

If the electrician uses a pair of lineman pliers and doesn't have the "touch" down pat, and "knicks" the wire, that electrican fails because that simple knick in the wire at the termination onto a circuit breaker, or other termination will be easily broken with movement!

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-25-2002).]

I have been a member of the IAEI for a few years now and got my copy of the 2002 NEC for, I think, $5 (to cover S&H) through them.

Oh, and I use a razor knife to strip wire over #10.

As noted by Don, some one must pay for the continuing updating of the NEC ( and other codes ).

It is not a cheap process which has,recently, been done every three years.

Unless you are lucky enough to be supported by manufacturers who want to get their products to be required by the code, I believe very few individuals would be willing to put so much " free time " into the continuing process.

Book rates, seminars, are some of the ways to pay for the privilege of having a document accepted Nationally and which anyone, such as myself, can make proposals to be consided.

Every proposal received by the NFPA must be addressed by the CMP.

Otherwise, I imagine, the license fees and the permit fees would sky-rocket for muninicpalities to address their own code and keep it updated as is the NEC.

Yes, I would like an absolutely free NEC book every three years with-out being a member of any organiztion too, but I think I'm realistic on this subject.

What a mess, in electrical installations, we would have with-out codes. Even with codes it is bad enough because so many installers and inspectors have their own ideas rather than follow existing codes.

NFPA Membership will get you the rights to download the 93, 96, and 99 NEC and access the 2002 online.



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-27-2002).]

Many folks refer to the free NEC at the local library.
I understand that there is an ongoing suit/movemnemt which is attempting to make it available freely to the public since when it is adopted by a particular jurisdiction it must be distributed as part of the "Freedom of information act".

rather unpalataple Ron,

as it implies we are a tightwad shop.

Just ask this board for any code, we'll post it...free!

How many really likes the newer format of the code better? The bigger bound volume?
I myself like the smaller version we use to have. To me, it is easier to use. Maybe I just got use to it. Been using it from back in the seventies, and now I still can't get use to the bigger volume. Maybe I'm just too old and set in my ways

I may be in the minority, but I "love" the NEC, and I hope it is never free. Usually things that are free aren't worth. I just get the feeling that if the code became free, the quality would go down.
For some reason, I always end up getting several copies of the NEC for free through suppliers, and other means, but I always buy the handbook, and if I didn't get other copies for free, I would gladly buy them myself. Depending the position you hold in your company, many times the company will buy code books for their employees. The cover of my 2002 code book has "Distributed by Hughes Supply" on the cover. It was a gift from a salesman that I used to do business with. It's a form of advertisement for them. It's funny the less likely you are to need a code book, the more likely you are to get one free. Would you call that a perk?

Perk up boyz, it'll get better,
Doc

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned article 90.1c yet.

The price of the Chicago Electrical Code Book is $130.00!!!!
http://www.lawbulletin.com/products.cfm?PUID=book7506

Ron,
The "Freedom of information act" does not require that the documents be provided "free of charge", just that you can get access to them. I think the the act provides that copying fees of up to $1 per page can be charged by the governmental unit for copies requested under the FIA. That would be over $700 for a copy of the 2002 NEC.
Don

I can understand the intent SvenNYC, that safety realted material be freely available.

But the NEC, is but one of many safety realted documents in the big pix.

And the big pix includes a heavy buisness influence.

Check out the prices of other popular standards...
http://global.ihs.com/

It could happen..........When





[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 11-27-2002).]

I seem to recall that a few years ago, somewhere in Alabama, a town passed an ordinance to recognize the then current NEC as the governing authority on electrical installations. Several homeowners sued the town to supply the NEC w/o charge. They won as the judge ruled that by making the NEC part of an ordinance, copies must be supplied to those requesting same, contractors as well as DIY homeowners. Maybe someone on the forum from AL could fill in more info.
Rowdy

Someone mentioned that the B&D book "Advanced Wiring" was a good DYI resource, i strongly disagree, there are many code violations within this book. For example when discussing isolated ground circuits the book tells you to re-identify a red wire in a 12/3 romex cable to be used as the ground wire. Now we all know that isn't compliant. Needless to say not useful.

rowdyrudy,
Are you sure? The local government, or any other unit of government, is not required to supply the citizens with free copies of other laws or ordinances. They are only required to have a copy on file that you can look at.
Don

"Someone mentioned that the B&D book "Advanced Wiring" was a good DYI resource, i strongly disagree, there are many code violations within this book. For example when discussing isolated ground circuits the book tells you to re-identify a red wire in a 12/3 romex cable to be used as the ground wire. Now we all know that isn't compliant. Needless to say not useful."

I think part of the reason you might find alot of code issues is from what I heard it was a Canadian Publication I can't be sure but the references on the net to it I found all have Random House of Canada as the publisher.

Zack, I still stand behind my original statement. I own both copies of the books that I mentioned, and of all the DIY books, those are the better ones. I agree, the violation you metioned is one of the few in the book. Nonetheless, it is still a decent book.
ECN members apparently feel the same way about the book:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001682.html

As ggardiner already mentioned, I assume there are Canadian and American versions of B&D book, and there may very well be many errors in the Canadian version.

resqcapt19
I believe that I read it in the Decatur paper. The locale was not Decatur but somewhere near there. Also, there are several towns that I am aware of that the residents may obtain copies of all ordinances free of charge. Some even have the ordinances on their web sites.
Rowdy

Among the DIY books, I found the latest edition (2002) of "Wiring a House" by Rex Cauldwell to be a valuable and useful book. Despite the modest sounding title it is generally quite rigorous as DIY books go.

What I really like about the book is that since its author is an experienced electrician of 30 years, it relects the knowledge of real world working conditions. Most of the DIY books are simply rehashing of earlier editions that are dolled up with photographs taken of mock-ups in photo studios. Cauldwell's book has a more "real world" feel about it.

I would be curious to know what others think about this book.