I just had a thought. I see a lot of posts that deal with AHJ's who make up their own rules ( so says the post) and I see people who dislike the AHJ's rule. In my state (NJ) If I don't like the AHJ's ruling I have a recourse. I can take it to the Construction Board of Appeals (CBOA). There I would have a chance to state my side of the story against the AHJ. In NJ the panel is made up of 5 people. There is 1 person from every trade ( Building, Fire, Plumbing, Electrical and 1 other) who will listen to both sides of the story and make a ruling. Sometimes they will side with the AHJ and sometimes with the other side. ( Be it homeowner or contractor or town) My question would be, how many other states has this kind of CBOA board with which to challenge the AHJ? After all AHJ's might think it, but they too are only human and they may make mistakes. I am just curious to see if other states have this option.

How long does it take to get in front of this group?? I can see people just repairing the job to get it done rather than wait for a meeting to settle the issue.

We have no recourse in Maine that I know of. We used to have a head state inspector that would go to bat for you if he thought you were right, unfortunately he retired.

We have a lot of "me" codes. I don't think they do it intentionally, they just don't necessarily know any better- we all make mistakes. And they're government workers and don't really get the right resources, either- a few months after my state adopted IBC 2003, the inspections dept still hadn't seen a physical copy of it and were eagerly thumbing through mine when I came in to ask a question, lol.

In my city, we can always appeal to the next higher authority. If the inspector doesn't like it, you can appeal to the trade inspector supervisor. If you still disagree, you can take it to the city engineer. I'm not sure if you could take it to the mayor/city council from there, but as they write the legislature, I'd imagine you could.

I'd think it's really not nice to piss off your inspectors going around them like this, though. So it'd better be something very important, unless the inspector really does agree with you but feels bound to the letter of the law and is unwilling to go out on a limb as his more experienced supervisor(s) might.

Our system is not perfect, but..it works. IMHO, I feel that most of the 'my way or the highway' guys are gone.

THe BOA process is filing a form, paying a fee ($100 to $150) and getting on the list. I would venture a 60 day window. Keep in mind that this is a LEGAL proceeding, and involves another NJ mainstay....lawyers.

Yes most of the my way guys are long retired, in jersey the inspectors are professional, and they back up their decision with a code article.

Is someone had a proplem with a ruling he can call Trenton and speak to a state inspector, that will try to clear up the issue, the ones that usually go the LEGAL proceeding, route, are usually builders looking to avoid some of the codes, becaust they think they will cost too much, not a good reason to change the rules.

As Les said...the DCA in Trenton also provides 'opinions', BUT unless the 'opinion' results in a FTO (Formal Technical Opinion), all that it is is.....an opinion. THe AHJ has to be 'convinced' that the 'opinion' is valid.

My personal philosophy is to solve any issue 'man-to-man', as all of us are professionals and adults, and human, and YES...we all make mistakes.

I agree working face to face and together. I have gotten a great repore with the contractors. It helps me and it helps them. If I find something that does not look right and I do not have my NEC in hand, I touch base with the sparkie on the site. I explain to him why I think there is a violation. Sometimes those exception to the rule throws everyone for a loop.

It sounds like it is easier just to bow to the inspector's demands.

Who's going to hold up a job for 60 days without an inspection, pay $150.00, and hire a lawyer just to prove their point?

GC will not hire you for future projects, Owner won't want to do business with you anymore. Inspector will resent you.

Sounds like a sure route to a liquidated damages claim if the job doesn't go according to schedule....of course you can always hire a lawyer to fight it in court.

Proper planning, and checking your work can avoid most inspection problems, our inspectors are pro's not the old command and control type guys, they have been gone for years, In my opinion working with your inspector will keep your work professional.

Electure:
The BOA is usually NOT a place where EC's wind up. It's for 'serious' situations....but...if an EC has the time, he can go that route.

40+ years in this field, and I have not been there, and as an AHJ...I have not been there either. As I said...settle it man-to-man.

You can fight a AHJ and you may win, but you may likely still be working in their jurisdiction so you must pick your battles wisely. On the otherside of the coin, A "loose cannon" inspector as portrayed in some of these posts are not doing their job. Making up rules on the fly is reckless can put their governing body of the jurisdiction in legal hot water. When a AHJ makes a ruling, they need to back it up with something, not just, "I do not like how it looks." Yes, you may not agree with them and there are gray area's that are open for interpretations. When it comes to interpretation, the AHJ gets to make the call like it or not.

John,

While in may be true that in NJ inspectors are all professionals, the fact of the matter is that there's 49 other States besides Jersey.(I've heard good things about NJ inspectors BTW).

There are some combination inspectors out here in CA that don't know a delta from a doghouse. They interpret the rules as they see fit. Usually a call to their Chief Inspector can get the issue ironed out, but there are some of them that will still resent you for doing so.

No one wants to have any inspector on their back, so to speak. You may have to work in their jurisdiction again someday.

Here things are a bit simpler ... you have the inspector, then you have the "building official." The BO is an appointed position in the city, and has the final say. This is a single person, not an office or panel.

Here, we Have the NEC with amendments.Thats what I wire by.

Some attitudes aswell. Depends on the bottom line.

Whether you "humor" them or fight them.

BTW: I'm paying them, twice. Permit and Taxes!!!.

(speaking of attitudes).:)

When I was doing electrical work in NJ, each town or borough hired an independent inspection agency. These inspectors were not employees of the town at all. Our permit fees pretty much covered their charges, so it wasn't about the money at all. These guys were true third parties and we got along very well. The inspectors were in a position where they could look at things in an unbiased manner. Those were good times. The state still had the ultimate authoritative power in the event of an impasse, however those rarely occurred.

I have not done electrical work in NJ since the early 80's, so I don't know how things have changed if at all.

I will admit that government employees acting as multi-inspectors are an accident waiting to happen. They hire cheap, pay cheap and we find ourselves paying the price. We have to fight their incompetence, either by doing work over again or sitting through the lengthy protest process. It's cheaper to do the job over.

Electure:
Good things about NJ??? Oh...you said NJ AHJ's! Thanks.

EV:
Yes, 3rd party inspectors are still around, in all trades. The Twp I work for just entered a 3rd party contract for Plumbing AHJ's. We had one resign, and the other one passed away....Twp fathers decided on 3rd party instead of Twp employee.

If you haven;t been working here since '80's...there have been changes, most for the better IMHO.

As a side note..multi-trade lic. inspectors are very much in demand around here. Seems like most job offerings say "multiple lic. are a plus"\

We have an inspector down here that has a limit of eight receptacles/lights on a circuit, in residential.

I will go to the villages website and search for amendments to the NEC. Sometimes I will call the inspector prior to bidding to ask about any amendments he/she may have. I'm not afraid to ask an inspector to backup his requests with actual NEC sections or local amendments, diplomatically of course.

Is this a actual ordinance or pet peeve of the inspector? Good as it is, an inspector can not be enforcing personal preferences

Good for you. I encourage the same thing everytime it comes up in conversation. It lets you know what you are get yourself into before hand and if done right, it builds a good repore with the officals than money can not buy unless they are on the take.

On small stuff a sit down with the Code book usually resolves the problem. I have a local review board, and there is always the right to appeal to the state.
Big headache comes from the general contractor that doesn't know the electrical code and pushes the electrician to create a violation.
Such as; join two existing buildings together, each with their own 400 amp service, same voltage and phasing. Now make it comply with the code.
I suggested, increase one and back feed the other; put in a single service disconnect and feed both. All rejected as too expensive since the job was done.
Actual solution; appeal to the state for an exception. Both service are fed from the same transformer so that will be the disconnect "point" in case of fire. Put signs at both services.
AHJ (Me) puts a copy of the signed state release in the file and walks away from it.
Kenny Rogers Rule: Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run.

There was an AHJ that refused to sign off on a job my buddy had done because he used drywall multi-purpose screws to mount the various boxes throughout the job instead of #8 wood screws. He refused to OK the job until the guys pulled all the DWS's out and replaced them, claiming that they violated the 1/4" interior obstruction requirement of the Code for mounting hardware.

He's also the same guy who gave a verbal OK to bury an undergound yard lighting circuit as long as there were inspection holes left open along every run longer than 25'. When he was called back for the final he flew into a rage, denied ever approving the "hole" method and demanded that the whole thing be dug up for his viewing.

They called back two days later and the guy OK'd it without even leaving his truck.

In most cases the decision is made to simply abide by the AHJ's decision rather than onject, due to (as others have said) the delay in completion and cost of representation, as well as the
factor on the part of the AHJ that would have every other job in that community gone over with a microscope.