hello folks,

I need some good links to system schematics and parts. Anyone?

Before I go back to this guy I'd like to have something like a clue.

Thx

These things?

One lead turns it on, the other turns it off and the 3d is the common

Chances are it's a Touchplate System, and as luck would have it, they're still around

http://www.touchplate.com/aboutus.php

some schematics for you...

http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/T13-T15.pdf

These old systems are rapidly becoming obsolete. I believe the relays are a GE type but the switches are very hard to find. The problem you will have is that were wired on the job site in one of two ways. 1. There are relays install at each ceiling j box and that would control the light in that room. 2. There would be a central relay panel that all the relays are there but the problem can be that there may be a central switching point in a bedroom that you can turn any light in the house on. There panels are usually a mess.

The relays are a latching type which the push on latches it and push off unlatches it.

You can convert these monsters by installing a standard toggle switch and a small continuous duty relay to replace the tubual type. I have had to do this a few times and at some point these will need to be changed out

Joe Ogle

You can porbably use off the shelf pushbuttons or SPDT-Center Off switches in place of the original switches. I seen a home electric book from the 1970s (from Time-Life or the like)that have the GE system fully defined.

I had those GE RR-7 relays in my old house in Md. IBM Gaithersburg used them everywhere and the maintenance folks gave me a bunch of them. The real problem with the original switches was they would bind on the cover if it wasn't perfectly aligned and the relay coils would burn up. They will not take a continuouis "pick" shot. They are pretty nice for things like your outside security lights because they can be controlled form an unlimited number of locations.
I ended up designing my own system here using CMOS and solid state relays. It basically works the same way but only requires a SPST momentary contact switch ("D" flipflop). The added advantage is I have a delayed power on so my motion detectors will not latch on in a short power hit.

I always tell customers that they have to get rid of them. They are always such a mess!

Drop new switch legs and remove all the relays. Somebody's got to do it someday. Might as well be now.....or maybe after the summer (attic heat).

Why are you so against them Jon? Other than the switch binding in the cover problem they really work pretty well and parts are still around.

In Europe latching relays are pretty common for lighting in locations that would normally require 4-way switching. They exist with both 230V control voltage and 12V control, the "switches" are ordinary bell buttons.
I guess in absolute emergencies the 12V 50 Hz would work on 12V 60 Hz too. The relays exist for box mounting an DIN rail panel mounting (the latter would be useless in the US).

dale-electric.com from New York had many GE parts (switches, relays, plates, etc.) in a catolog that is not too old. Prices seemed reasonable.

Another draw back is you can't dim the lights with that system.

Dale is where I linked up at note 2

I am wondering the same thing.

We still install GE commercial lighting control systems that use the standard RR-7 relays.

Usually they run a lighting program but we can install override switches and many times they will be a pilot version of the touch plate.

I thought of using RR-7s at this house but I was on a CMOS kick at the time and I liked the idea of being able to use 5v switching, current limited in the milliamp range.

Some of my issues are as follows.

Cant install dimmers.
Cant simply add a switch/leg
Cant easily find/replace switches
Must troubleshot TWO systems (HV and LV sides)
Relays here are generally in the attic.
Sometimes control voltage is DC.

I like simple things.

The only one that really jumps out to me is you don't want to be in an Arizona attic in the summertime ... makes sense to me.

Certainly running additional "switch loops" with bell wire seems easier that breaking into a wall to run 14/3 and you can still use a dimmer.
I think this would be easier to trouble shoot than a 3 way or 4 way loop.