I will preface this thread with a breif explaination of my senario.
Did a large house, 10,000 sq feet, gave price on chandelier lift, customer thought I was out of my mind, they brought in their freind to do it, they told me he was licensed. No problem I said. Sent a letter to customer stating that I will not be responsible for the wiring of the lift. They blew up. My inspector came in for the rough inspection and failed the install of the lift. I told the inspector that I did not wire the lift. He said he would write a letter to the customer telling them just this and was putting it on the certificate.
Today I had a conversation with my contractor. Went like this...
Joe, my inspector came to look at the job today and said that the wiring that was done by the homeowners electrician is in violation. Needs to be fixed.
Joe says.. tell the homeowner taht you tried to get the job inspected by your inspector, as a favor, but he failed it. Tell them that it made you look like an ass and now he must get this inspected himself, or I can charge you $1000.00 to do the repair and get it inspected.
...What I am doing here is cracking them over the head with an extra...
Joe said... this will make you look like you are on their side and are trying to help them.
He said to me... if you don't play the game you will go out of business... I said I refuse to play games. I just want to run an honest business.
Question is........................
Am I a jerk, isn't honesty the best policy?(to coin a phrase) We can be honest and be good business men (or should I say business people) I beleive I am making the right move.
Right guys... Help!!!

If they didn't go with your price on the light lift then I would charge them extra for it or refuse to work on it at all. Be honest and fair but don't let their choice be your problem. I never try to teach anyone a lesson by over charging. But I wouldn't do'em any favors either.

Never sacrafice your integrity, do the right thing always.

Q~ why is GC 'Joe' allowing the homeowner to solicit outside of his subs???

Tsolanto:
Did the guy who put the lift in have a permit???
Or was it "under your permit"???

There's a basic "rule", an AHJ cannot fail a "permitted" job for something that is "done by others". A "red sticker" can be placed/issued for a violation, but if the item is not on your permit, your work cannot be "failed".

The other issue, the suggestion of $1000 to "repair & inspect"; how much is the repair & your time worth?? $500; $750??

You could put an honest value on it, and make the customer happy.

BTW, if you "failed" rough due to the lift, did "Joe" give you the rough payment, since it was not your "fail". GC's use any excuse.

John

I would not be part of a job like this due to the now obvious inevitable headaches.However my thoughts would be to simply tell the people to get the guy to do it right, or I would redo it at X cost, any reinspection fees are their responsibility. The job will not be inspected untill this is resolved. No need to be a jerk about it.

I don't see any moral conflict and I'm real big on doing the right thing always.

The other guy's work didn't pass. If they want to hire you to fix it, it will cost them. And it should. If it's a fair $1K to rework the chandelier, you've got to charge them the $1K or consider it charity. I'm all for charitable work but rarely do customers with chandeliers in 10K sq ft homes need a hand out.

You're not "cracking them over the head" with an extra. You're charging them extra for extra work. If it wasn't in your original agreement, they're scamming you if they expect you to fix someone else's screw up and not charge them.

right...there's a $$$ for aggravation....

Thanks for all the replies.
arseegee-$1000 is a crack over the head...
What Joe does, is ask me to include his markup in my proposals. Basically he lies to the customer, telling them that they can deal with me directly therefore saving them money. The customer is to beleive that the construction contractor is not getting a markup. Often times Joe asks me to double my price and present it to the customer. Joe builds high end homes, 7,000 to 10,000 sq/ft. Big dollars $700,000 to 1.5mil. The owners of these houses are usally buisness owners themselves and are to stupid people. Most times when I present these proposals they go through the roof. I loose any trust they may have had in the beginning and they then think of me as a theif.
Sparky-now you see why Joe allows his customer to deal with me directly.
Hotline-No the guy did not have a permit. I was told he was licensed later I found out that isn't true.
Electricmanscott-Headaches... buy stock in Tylanol. He owes me $24,000. So I can't completly quit.

Tsolanto:
24K is a big nut. If I got your drift, you are doing his mark-up. Does it work?? It's tough to "walk away" from a guy that gets/gives you work; but it's tougher to have 24k sitting in receivables from 1 guy. Does he pay promptly??, or "here's a few bucks now, and I'll get you the rest soon" & "by the way, here's another job, start it asap", while not paying the balance(s) on completed work.
Some GC's/Builders try to "roll" balances, ie: using the final/finish or part of it for "front" or rough on the next job. Watch out, it eventually catches up with them
John

HotLine1 you are on the button! He gives me just enough money so I don't starve. I never seem to get caught up. You are right, I am doing his mark up. But what a mark up!!! often times 100%. It makes me look like a theif. What would your customer say if you were charging them $385.00 per low volt halo highhat. The can trim and lamp cost me $60.00. They can go the the local Home Depot and find the prices themselves. Rember these people are thrifty. After I present this rediculus price, the homeowner goes screaming to Joe the contractor. Joe then proceeds to reduce the price and tells the customer that he will absorb the difference. Makes him look like a prince and my company still looks like we are theives.

Tsolanto:
It may very well be time for you to say bye.
If you can't get away from him without loosing your $$$$$...how about this.
Try approaching him, and telling him that you don't want your reputation run into the ground by "gouging". Tell him you want $$ for extras, and let him earn his own money.
He's playing you. And what if he decides to "say goodbye" to you?? He can bring another EC in with normal pricing, and look like Guiliani did on 9/12/01. (PS, I happen to like Rudy) What if he goes Chapter 7/11, and leaves you hanging??? TIGHTEN UP YOUR RECEIVABLES, Don't get 3rd degree Burned.
John

Thanks for the response John. You just may be right... This is a tough one...

tsolanto,

As an inspector, if someone told me that he didn't do the work, Then I would require a second permit. 1 for the work that you are doing, and one for the work that another Lic. electrical contractor OR the homeowner was doing himself. I have seen this a lot and I do understand that some people can (?) do their own work. Again though, I make sure that each permit is seperate. I also try to make sure that your permit is for your job. What I mean is that when I see a signed permit by an elec. cont. and the wiring doesn't look good, I might call the contractor to ask a question to see that he is indeed doing the work on the job. I HATE it when somebody tries to do work under someone elses lic. You should make sure that the other elec. or homeowner takes a permit for their own work. If it fails, then it is their problem not yours. If they want you to fix it, then it should cost the, premium now. Because you have to remove what the other guy did, then wire it up correctly again.

From what I read here it is time to get legal help and break away from this guy. 24K is waaaaaaaay too much for a builder to owe you. You are being taken advantage of big time. Sometimes it's hard to see when your stuck in the middle of it but from this end it is painfully clear. This situation could get ugly.

See a lawyer. If you continue with this guy the receivable will most likely get higher as your reputation gets lower and the likelihood that it is more profitable for him to go bankrupt and start as a new business increases. How much are the other subs being held up for? If they are making him pay in full why can't he pay you? If you just quit working for him you probably will get nothing. With a lawyer(and I have a low regard for lawyers) you may get 50 to 70 percent, but that is better than the other two options.



[This message has been edited by gpowellpec (edited 10-05-2002).]

We had an account kind of like that.It was for a manufacturer of custom portable bldgs.The guy was slow pay and a 1st Class A-hole.It seemed like we were always asking for payment for the previous 5 jobs.He would make a partial payment with a promise of more in a day or two to get us to start another building.When we finally decided that enough was enough,we had to file a lien to awaken the bum.It was a hard decision to make also because all of the work was T&M.,but you can only extend yourself so far.

suggest
1) You file liens on all work you have not been paid for in full.
2) From now on give tour extra/change order fair price only to him, Tell him he is the general and cutomer relations are his job. If he still wants you to give the customer the price give them the same price you gave him. When he discovers that no markup for him is in your price, you will have his attention.
3) Find another general to work with and commit more of you time to the hopefully more honest guy.
4) Raise your price to the current guy with a larger down payment asked for up front.
5) Be sure you charge intrest on late bills.
6) Tell him no more work will be started until all past due bill are caught up.
This will hopefully allow you to walk away slowly enough to have a chance to be paid. If he accepts these changes, and gets current on your bills, you may have a higher profit customer. I personally doubt he will accept the changes so be prepared to go to court.

I never have seen eye to eye with phone GC's, all they do is broker subs.
Sure they walk the walk, talk the talk, but they never break a bead, just make $$$ from the sweat of others....

Tom,
This guy is so shadey.I think you know what to do but are afraid to do it.In the long run (YOU WILL BE OUT OF A LOT OF $$)...