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Posted By: JPB Use of plastic cable ties - 09/26/02 06:25 PM
It seems to be common practice to use plastic cable ties to support MC cable. I can't find anything in the code that says yes or no.
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/26/02 06:58 PM
Found in the 2002 NEC "see cable ties"

"320.30 Type AC cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41/2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting.

334.30 Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (41/2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every cabinet, box, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.

527.4(J) Support. Cable assemblies and flexible cords and cables shall be supported in place at intervals that ensure that they will be protected from physical damage. Support shall be in the form of staples, cable ties, straps, or similar type fittings installed so as not to cause damage. Vegetation shall not be used for support of overhead spans of branch circuits or feeders.

530.12(B) Stage Effects and Electrical Equipment Used as Stage Properties. The wiring for stage effects and electrical equipment used as stage properties shall be permitted to be wired with single- or multiconductor listed flexible cords or cables if the conductors are protected from physical damage and secured to the scenery by approved cable ties or by insulated staples. Splices or taps shall be permitted where such are made with listed devices and the circuit is protected at not more than 20 amperes."

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 09-26-2002).]
Posted By: Tom Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/26/02 08:37 PM
330.30 says "supported and secured" and doesn't say a thing about how to do this. Therefore, it is up to your AHJ as to what is acceptable practice in your area.

I've used cable ties with MC a few times, but much prefer a strap.

Tom
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/26/02 11:08 PM
JPB,

Note that all cable ties are not created equal. Some will dry out faster and get brittle. This type may be unacceptable to the AHJ.

Bill
Posted By: tsolanto Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/27/02 12:39 AM
Are plastic ties listed for such use. If it is not listed to be used with MC NM etc. I beleive you can't use them, as silly as it sounds... I have been violated for using plastic ties to support NM cables. The inspector said it was in violation because it bundled the cables and needed to be derated because of the heat that would be generated. What a load of crappola. This was in a house maybe 6 cables bundled together. Big deal..

[This message has been edited by tsolanto (edited 09-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by tsolanto (edited 09-26-2002).]
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/27/02 10:58 AM
Bill, perhaps a valid point but how would a person know what the life of a cable tie would be?
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/27/02 01:54 PM
Eman,

I'm not sure, but I have heard Inspectors near me express concern about them. I think that one difference is that some are UV rated and some are not? (I'm guessing here) but not having the right attributes for the situation or location would make them unsuitable.

I have always used metal wire (baling wire) where it was actually supporting cabling because of this. I'd only use plastic cable ties where the object was to 'neaten-up' things a bit.

I think we've had this conversation before somewhere.

Bill
Posted By: JPB Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/27/02 04:17 PM
Thanks for the help everyone
Posted By: gregoryf Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/27/02 05:45 PM
To the best of my knowledge, white cable ties are not UV resistant. Black cable ties are UV resistant.
Posted By: Tom Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/27/02 09:09 PM
Tsolanto,

Your inspector must like to make things up. There is no requirement that I know of to use "listed" or "listed for the purpose" supporting devices for NM, MC, or AC.

This actually forced me to walk out to my truck and look at 3 sizes of NM staples from 2 differant manufacturers, none of them have a listing mark on the box. I also checked 2 boxes of EMT straps, they're not listed either.

Evidently I would be in serious trouble with the inspectors in your area. [Linked Image]
Posted By: tsolanto Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/28/02 06:32 PM
Tom, I looked at a box of staples and it was written on the box, the size of the romex allowed. When talking about cable ties they are not specifically rated to support NM, BX etc.

Article 100 states that the AHJ makes the call.

Tom

[This message has been edited by tsolanto (edited 09-28-2002).]
Posted By: harold endean Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/28/02 10:10 PM
As an AHJ ( A**hole Having Jurisdiction [Linked Image]) I would never fail someone for using staples. Those staples have been around for many years and many people have used them safely.
Posted By: Tom Re: Use of plastic cable ties - 09/29/02 02:13 PM
Tom,

I looked up cable ties in the UL White Book. If they are listed ties, then "the evaluation of these products include consideration of the rated mecanical strength, maximum operating temperature, smoke and heat generation,corrosion resistance and weatherability..."

There is a requirement that the package be marked with the maximum load and thermal rating. The label on the one package of listed ties that I have is mostly missing & the only thing that I can make out is "suitable for use in air handling spaces" so I can't testify to a load rating in pounds. Seems to me at least some of the cable ties should have adequate strength to hold an MC cable or NM in place.

Anyhow, since you now know what this inspector expects, it probably wouldn't be worth fighting about.

Tom
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