Some wire for designated room(s) circuits , some don't. No code to say you must (other than AFCI now)

pro's?
con's?

Rule of thumb:

I split rooms up by recept circuits. Might double up small rooms.
Put lighting on it's own so Mrs. Homeowner doesn't get caught in the dark if the sweeper and/or other device trips the breaker...

No more than 10 fixtures per 15A lighting circuit. 13 Recepts on 20A.

I don't use #14 wire, so in a pinch I'll put lighting on a 20A if 11 through 13 fixtures are more convenient in a given situation.

Any upgrades to AFCI in the houses I have wired would be a piece of cake.

Sparky,

I usually like to have more than 1 circuit represented in each room. Not dedicated, but so that all in a room are not on same circuit. Maybe follow outside walls on 1 and inside walls on another.

If I can sell it I'll even sometimes run 'Generator Circuits' throughout house to pick up necessary lighting (Hallway, Bathroom, Basement) and a light and receptacle in each room. This can usually be done with 2 or 3 circuits plus Furnace, Refrig, and Well pump (if exists) for a total of 5 - 6. This gives nice coverage around House and it can be run on a 5k Generator.


Bill

Guys;
i'd pretty much would have to say 'ditto' to your posts here,i do the same.... just fishin'for ideas.....

Sparky66,

I've seen a few posts regarding not using #14.
In a residentail job, I would think that it would increase costs significantly due to the additional planning and materials associated with box fill issues. Thoughts?

box fill & identification are my two reasons for #14, gotta run more of it, but it works easier, and i know which wires are power vs. lighting.
(back to Bill's generator thing....)

still , there's much poo-poo for #14 out there, dunno rationale?, what say you?

I've pretty much used 12 for residential apps also. Seems it was easier w/ the 20A circs, as I could cover more space w/ less circuits.(used to do some big houses). If you plan it to use the uncrowded (ie. smoke detector) boxes for your junction points, there's really not much prob w/ box fill. Circuits? Bill's got the ticket here. The Gen Circs are a great idea.

I've done #12 throughout Houses and as a standard I'm not convinced that it's better overall. I would agree that it would be better for feeders to lessen Voltage drop and larger incidental loads. But as far as connection to the devices goes I'm not sure it should be used with standard-grade wiring devices. It sometimes seems that terminal screws cannot be tightened sufficiently to securely hold the wire. They sometimes get stripped out or come loose when the devices are pushed back into the box.

Real World:
From a job pricing standpoint #12 costs more, needs larger boxes or special routing to avoid it (more wire) takes more time wiring devices and folding into boxes and may need spec grade devices. It's certainly an option that could be offered to the builder/owner, but if you went with this as your standard and were competing for price against others using #14 you'd be starving.

That's just the way it is. If they change the code minimum to #12 then everyone's at 'apples to apples'


Bill

Bill,
What brand of devices do you use? I've never had a problem with #12 in Leviton or Eagle brand switches and recepts (15A).

Lighting I use a J box or two in the attic. The HR is to the J Box, and the Feeders "spider" out to each Sw box. The only thing in the Sw boxes are the feeder and the switched leg, or just a switch loop.

As far as #14... I've seen way too many old #14 wires in very poor shape. Corroded green on 1/3 of it's diameter, and very brittle from heat. I've seen #12 in the same location (and presumably, the same age) that was in convincingly better shape.

Warranties may only last a year, but I like my work to last a little longer than that.

Makes it a little difficult marking circuits in the panel, doesn't it?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sparky66wv:
Lighting I use a J box or two in the attic. The HR is to the J Box, and the Feeders "spider" out to each Sw box. The only thing in the Sw boxes are the feeder and the switched leg, or just a switch loop.

Sparky, I use nail on rounds when I can, It saves labor, and I will almost always have the homerun or the feed at the switch box. For two reasons, one is so that I have a neutral in the switch box in case I have to add something in the future, and two if God forbid there's a problem in the circuit, I can open the switch box find the feed and troubleshoot from there. I won't have to stand on a ladder and drop a keyless or fixture to find the feed.

Just my two cents

I use round nail-ons too...that's not what I mean... Allow me to better explain myself...

switched leg: A complete circuit on the load side of a switch. (Complete with unswitched neutral.

switch loop: Hot on white (taped purple for me), switched on black.

Sometimes these definitions are interchanged, but this is the correct terminology.

What I mean is, split the jumpers up in a Junction box so you don't have but one hot leg per switch box. One line, however many loads as needed. Better than "daisy-chaining" and having crowded boxes. Then if you have to add lights later, there's a J box just waiting for an additional tap...

If this doesn't make sense, then I'm not explaining myself right...


[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-03-2001).]

I usually run each room as a circuit. I also run the lights on a separate circuit combining several rooms on one,to avoid as someone said to prevent being in the dark when a breaker trips because the vacuum tried to eat a throw rug. I also like the idea if I am doing service work for the customer later I know I won't have to get a crick in the neck, replacing a receptacle while holding the flashlight between my neck and shoulder. Plus the customers seem to like the idea.

spkjpr,

You gotta get one of those miner helmets.

'66.

I haven't seen any 14 ga wiring corroding away like you say. What do you think is the cause of this?

I mostly would notice the switches' screws coming loose, especially the ground screw.

I wouldn't use jbox in the attic as many like to put a floor down up there. I would do that in commercial though above drop ceiling it makes system very flexible.


Bill

I guess WVians don't have tall attics.
You wouldn't want a room in any of the ones I've wired, unless you're only 2 feet tall.

In tightening screws, I'm old school and I don't like phillips heads on terminal screws, they tend to strip before they're torqued properly.
You get many times more torque on a sharp, properly sized flat head screwdriver. As far as I know, I've never had a terminal back out.

Maybe the widespread use of coal to heat in this area in the past has helped to create the corrosive environment that has caused what I've noticed in older homes (say, 50 to 75 year old wiring...)The corosion eats its way through at the terminals, and the #12 has more "meat" to back up the ampacity...

These are entirely my own observations, and all disclaimers apply!

'66,

About the Attics I mean they put down flooring and use it for storage. Although some Attics I work it I can't touch the peak on my toes!

Bill

Must be a Yankee thing...

I've built one house that way and they were originally from NJ!
Finished attic (first I've ever seen one...) not quite finished enough to be a room, but finished nonetheless. I still managed to find an open wall to put J boxes on. Good thing too, because they needed to add a small attic fan, of which I had not prepared!

I've fit through 14.5" x 8" spaces with roofing nails protruding so most any place is accessible to me if it is open at all. Proved that one in a ceiling fan install in a room that the lady had denied my suggestion to rough in for one when it would have been easy to do so.
When the carpenter removed the drywall in the laundry closet to install a hatch, he said I'd never fit. I'm 6'1" and 140 lbs., so needless to say, I have a high aspect ratio. Quite limber too... No J boxes were involved in that one though...

I have wired houses here in NY that you could play soccer in the attic I've had to use ladders to reach the collar beams, I have also been in attics tat I've had to crawl on my belly to get to the air handler.

Sparky when you say j box what do you mean? To me a j box is a box the has an L bracket so that you can nail it to the front of a stud. If that is what you mean is that trade practice where you are? I use them when I have to get a box between two studs that are close together, and on concrete walls that only have a furring strip on the face of the stud. I have also found them handy on metal studs.

Junction Box...any 4"x 4"x 2-1/8" Box will do. Sometimes a 4-11/16" Square by 2-1/8" Deep is used.

Pardon my unorthodox terminology.

Couldn't get the boxes you describe here. Didn't know they existed other than ads in ECM (Electrical Contractor Magazine). Doesn't seem like they'd hold too many conductors legally...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-04-2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sparky66wv:
[B]Junction Box...any 4"x 4"x 2-1/8" Box will do. Sometimes a 4-11/16" Square by 2-1/8" Deep is used.

We call these 1900 boxes or deep 1900, the larger box we refer to as a 4-11 box.


Pardon my unorthodox terminology.

No need to apologize we all use different nomenclature even some of my apprentices right out of school refer to material with terms that I don't recognize with 15 years in the trade.

http://www.carlon.com/electrical/zipboxblue.shtml

Follow this link for some good pictures of boxes, the box I referred to is called bracketed by Carlon, there is a 2 gang version in the picture. but I ususally prefer a nail on for 2 gang.