If you had your choice would you use Metal or Plastic boxes for your Taped/Untaped Prong-Up/Down receptacle?

How about Conduit?

Why?


Bill

well....we can look at this in terms of usage, location, durability ,callbacks, etc. myself i use a mix of the two.

but probably the most common approach is time, and time is a bid winner.

one metal CON i did notice recently was that the old work metal box ears screws protruded into the box about 1/16". This was just enough to prevent a rotary timer and some dimmers to enter, had to get the dremmel out...

OK everyone, warm up the flameshooters!!

Metal boxes, Metal conduit, Taped Receptacles with Ground up.

Metal conduit system for secure installation.
Taped Receptacle sides in case someone desides to pull a live Receptacle out of the box.
Ground up in case something metallic falls down onto the inserted plug [will not help for 2 wire plugs, though].

One other thought - A person could easilly have an IG circuit by using 12/2 Romex and non-metallic boxes. I'm sure this is not new to many people, but it is to me!

Let the Flames Begin!!

Scott SET

I was trained with metal boxes, even in residential. We'd pigtail an EGC to a green screw, crimp it down with a PT-70M barrel crimp, and strategically place the sharp pointy mess in an unused corner of the box.
Very labor intensive.

Just mounting the box plumb and square required drilling recesses for the jutting screws on the box sides. Only then would we finally nail the box to the stud.

Remove the unused loom clamp to save on wire count, and we used CXW's (3 1/2" deep) unless at the end of a run.

BTW we NEVER used #14 wire, even on 15A protected lighting circuits.

Metal staples were the only thing available at the time, I've since been able to somewhat aquire plastic cable straps, which a far superior. (Specially stocked for Musser Electric and Kelly Electric, the two past apprentices of my old boss.)

I use plastic Carlon boxes now, and I'll use PVC every time the situation permits. Less bonding /grounding issues to worry about.

Bill has me almost convinced to use #14 wire on my next rough in...appropriately, of course. But I digress again...

'66

BTW, removing the extra clamp does not save your wire count according to 370-16(b)(2) The deduction taken is for 1 or more cable clamps within the box.

I'm a big Carlon fan myself. It makes things much easier. Boxes are more roomy and non-conductive so less labor involved (no bonding)

As far as the #14 goes, In order to get work you sometimes have to bid the jobs like everyone else does and then give the customer the opportunity to upgrade a notch. Lately I've been very aware of instances where this minimum requirement (#14) has been abused by very long runs and excessive voltage drops. I would recommend using #12 for these feeders.


Bill

Wow... there's another one to add to my list!

Joe Musser and I have noticed that ol' Jim didn't know code as well as he let on... We rarely questioned him. In his defense, he usually erred on the conservative side... beyond code.

I'm a little embarrassed that I'm only learning some of these things now!

-Virgil
"I ask the stupid ones, so you don't have to!" (all in fun...)

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 04-29-2001).]

i have to agree with scott on this one.. for all new construction, and where ever possible, we use metal 1900 boxes, piped in, devices taped... when we have to fish things in, depending on the situation, we'll use romex, MC, or greenfeild.. we like to use raceway as much as possible, just incase the custormer changes their mind.. we hardly ever use smurf either.. pullin in that extra ground.. more material waste etc..

-m

I always pull a green wire, even in metal conduit. Or does that constitiue a ground loop with parrallel paths?

For residential- plastic, unless you don't want to get the job. I've had very little trouble with plastic boxes.

Commercial- such as offices- depends on the depth of the customers checking account. If the job is so tight that I have to use non-metallic cable, I use plastic boxes. If they can afford to upgrade to MC cable, obviously this gets a metal box.

Tom

Parallel paths are okay. It's loops that are a problem, mainly when earth can be reached by current running in the wrong direction.

If I have a choice,I prefer most inside wall boxes plastic and exposed boxes metal.

When I did residential, I was a big fan of the Carlon 21 cuin pvc box. Some GCs who did only upscale custom homes specified metal boxes only. Cost on these homes wasn't a factor so I liked to use the Raco 3-1/2" deep metal box with the stud bracket on the side. I can't remember the number but they were gangable. In commercial, I preferred the raco 232 4x4x2-1/8 with the stud bracket and use mud rings. EMT when ever possible. If I build myself another house it will all be in EMT.

For residential Plastic boxes carlon or thomas and Betts whatever is available, both have a good selection and variety of box types. All wiring romex, 14/2 and 14/3 on gen purpose and 12/2 and greater when needed. Competition is very tight in the residential market here, that this is the trade practice. Except in NYC where romexis illegal, bx is still used, but most contractors are starting to use MC.

Commercial is a different ball of wax. MC and metal when called for. Emt when called for. NYC fire alarms call for threaded aluminum and metal boxes, also special BSA wire in some instances. NYC housing or projects call for threaded rigid in public halls, tank rooms, emt can be used in motor rooms and other such spaces. Outside they spec for pvc coated with 10awg thhn for 15 amp lighting circuits.

Depnds on the job. For new work I use metal and drive sheetrock screws with a cordless drill. On old work I like Allied molded boxes because I can trim the wing when dealing with plaster and lath walls. I never cared much for the clips that I used to use on the metal boxes, just worried me the they came so close to the receptacle screws. Also have bad memories from working where we used MC and metal boxes with clips and upon powering the circuit having a brief 4 of July only to discover the receptacle had grounded on the clip because it bowed out too much.

I prefer using plastic boxes when ever possible, even in old work the plastic pop-in boxes work well. You don't wory as much with grounding.

Far as the metal boxes work well on surface area's and mostly commerical work.

Getting to the receptacle's up or down, I unlike most of my peers prefer down.

Conduit's I again like plastic over Emt, Rigid.

I reckon everyone has his or her way of utilizing there work ethics as with material being used ect. It's great that we can enter change our ideas and work practics to keep all of us up informed of the many ways that are available to us.

Wayne

Ah yes, the Carlon Zip boxes are great! I mastered the old F-strips, but I hate to use 'em for the same reasons.

BTW... In installing ceiling boxes, round cut-in Carlon Zip type in drywall, use a 4" hole saw and run it backwards to save the teeth...Works like a charm!

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-04-2001).]

About the metal, plastic boxes, I like to use the Slater Gray boxes with Quick Clik 6/32 screw threads. I like to use metal round boxes for all my ceiling fixtures and smoke detectors. The gem boxes, I like the 2 -3/4" deep, for most single ended romex runs, it gives you a little more room. It's allways good to go one size larger with the plastic nail on's. Instead of 18 cu. go with the 20 or 22cu. Not that much more in price. Have a great and safe weekend.
THOMPSON ELECTRIC

STEVE,

Great to have a fellow LI'der (Long Islander).
Glad to see you could make it.


Bill

Question for Long Islanders:

I romex legal in all parts of Long Island? I have heard that some municipalities do not allow it's use.

Ok, i'd like to ask advise per application.
I have to rough a post & beam, the skelton is placed, 1/2"sheet rock next(seen in interior), 1/2" aspinite next( some call it pressboard), then 1 1/2" hard insulation, the 1 1/2" insulation again before sheating/siding.

The builder would like me to only box out through the first 1 1/2" layer, as to not break into the 2nd. So that leaves me with
2 1/2" from finish surface back.

T370-16(a) says 12.5 cu, 5-12's for a device box

any ideas or suggestions ????



[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 05-06-2001).]

Silver,

As far as I know Romex is accepted in all of Suffolk. Nassau may have some pockets where it is not. I am not familiar with all those areas' rules and regs.

Sparky,

I'm not totally following you there but can you use a 4 x 4 (side strap) or a 2 Gang/4 x 4 (nail-on) pvc with a mud ring?

Bill

Bill;
there's nothing to nail to...except the aspinite

I've ran PVC coated Rigid in aluminum diecasting plants, has to be replaced about every 12 months or so too.

I've also heard that some NYC sparkys are looking for urine-proof fixtures... No offense to the big apple, I'm being serious here.

urine-proof????

By "fixtures" I mean devices, fixtures, conduit, etc. anything exposed.

The tale goes that people will steal anything, and when they steal the toilets and urinals, the people will just go anywhere...

I've always thought NYC had a funny smell...

I mean no offense, just to give perspective, we still leave the keys in the vehicles around here in case someone needs to move it our of their way! And the country has its share of funny smells...(hogs, cattle, sheep, turkeys, etc.)

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-07-2001).]