ECN Forum
Posted By: elecbob smokes - 08/31/02 12:50 AM
I've made it a practice to install smokes on a dedicated 15 amp (#14) circuit. It isn't required by code but it seemed like a good idea to me. Anyone else here feel the same?
Bob
Posted By: Electric Eagle Re: smokes - 08/31/02 12:53 AM
That's the way we do it also.
Posted By: N.O.Minded Re: smokes - 08/31/02 01:04 AM
elecbob,
IMHO, They should be put on a dedicated branch circuit due to endless possibilities/scenarios that could arise causing failure of these life safety devices.
However, in my area the AHJ has adopted the 2002 which require the smokes to be on AFCI if located in Bdrm. Therefore the cost effective method thus far has been to include them on one of the Bdrm AFCIs. BTW,JMHO
Regards, Andrew
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: smokes - 08/31/02 01:11 AM
Many areas have rules that prohibit smoke detectors from being on their own dedicated circuit. The are required to be put on a commonly used circuit so that if the circuit was off for any reason, action would be taken to restore power to the commonly used circuit and the detectors.
Don
Posted By: electric-ed Re: smokes - 08/31/02 01:17 AM
I believe Smoke Alarms should be supplied from a lighting circuit so that there is less chance of the supply being inadvertantly shut off, and not noticed.

Ed
Posted By: elecbob Re: smokes - 08/31/02 02:21 AM
I guess any fire serious enough to cause a breaker trip on a lighting circuit would first be detected by the smokes so maybe the argument that they should be shared with something that would alert occupants that there is a problem with the circuit is valid. Recently, in a duplex I fed them from a dedicated circuit off of the seperate house panel feeding the basement. The inspector said nothing. Regarding AFCI's: I thought only outlets in bedrooms needed protaction. Do smokes and lights need protaction too? What about dedicated HVAC receptacles (including 120/240 volt) in bedrooms?
Thanks
Bob
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: smokes - 08/31/02 05:08 AM
Quote
210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection.

(B) Dwelling Unit Bedrooms. All branch circuits that supply 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit.
Quote
Definition.
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment.
An example is a lighting outlet, a receptacle outlet, smoke detector outlet, 15 or 20 A, 125 V AC outlet, etc.
Posted By: elecbob Re: smokes - 08/31/02 06:01 AM
Thank you for the clarification ElectricAL. The electrical inspecters around here have certainly been lax in their enforcement on AFCI's.
Bob
Posted By: Bjarney Re: smokes - 08/31/02 07:56 PM
They cost more, and seem to come fitted with the cheapest of 9V battery, but apparently some NorCal jurisdictions require combination AC- and DC-powered detectors. Maybe a ‘value-added’ homeowner-optioned adder for new construction?
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: smokes - 08/31/02 09:02 PM
Al,
How do I find a current and voltage rating on an "outlet'???
Don
Posted By: Electricmanscott Re: smokes - 08/31/02 10:33 PM
Another vote for the lighting (or other commonly used) circuit.
Posted By: CanadianSparky Re: smokes - 09/01/02 12:10 AM
I agree with the lighting circuit too, how many times do you check if the LED is lit up on your smoke? How many times do you notice if the lights in your bathroom don't work?
Posted By: pauluk Re: smokes - 09/01/02 01:35 PM
It's done both ways in the U.K. The rules don't say how the detector(s) must be fed, just that new buildings require AC-powered smokes.

I've usually wired them on a lighting circuit for the reasons already outlined.
Posted By: Joe Tedesco Re: smokes - 09/01/02 02:04 PM
Definition:

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed.
Posted By: ElectricAL Re: smokes - 09/01/02 06:40 PM
Don,

On the utilization equipment. [Linked Image]
Posted By: resqcapt19 Re: smokes - 09/01/02 08:21 PM
Al,
Yes, but not on the outlet. The code section is not correctly written. The device installed at the outlet has a rating, but the outlet itself does not. The wording should be: "All 125 volt, single phase, 15 and 20 ampere branch circuits that serve dwelling unit bedroom outlets shall be protected by an AFCI."
In the current code wording the ratings modify "outlet". They should modify "branch circuit". Outlets don't have voltage and ampere ratings, branch circuits do. This problem came about because they didn't watch what they were doing when they deleted the word "receptacle". Those that support the AFCI requirement should submit proposals to correct this for the '05 code. The current wording would not standup in court challenge.
Don
Posted By: electricdiver Re: smokes - 09/05/02 11:02 PM
i always tie my smoke alarms into the basement or kitchen lighting circuits. if there is a problem with the alarms homeowners will call you and have it fixed, because they can not live without their lighting. keeps them from leaving the breaker off.
Posted By: Bill Addiss Re: smokes - 09/05/02 11:17 PM
Quote
The electrical inspecters around here have certainly been lax in their enforcement on AFCI's
Bob,

If your jurisdiction is using the 1999 NEC code only the Receptacle Outlets are specified to be AFCI protected (in Bedrooms)

BTW, My vote is not to put smokes on a dedicated circuit. I've had customers ask for it (so they could turn them off) but I have always managed to talk them out of it.

Bill
Posted By: Joule-E Re: smokes - 09/06/02 06:09 AM
On putting the smokes on the basement lighting circuit: I have tried that but I also put one receptical on that circuit in the basement. Having to have GFCi and having the AFCI requirement sounds sticky. ANy ideas there, I guess Ill have to run a seperate branch down for the recepticals...
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