ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Increasing demand factors in residential
by gfretwell - 03/28/24 12:43 AM
Portable generator question
by Steve Miller - 03/19/24 08:50 PM
Do we need grounding?
by NORCAL - 03/19/24 05:11 PM
240V only in a home and NEC?
by dsk - 03/19/24 06:33 AM
Cordless Tools: The Obvious Question
by renosteinke - 03/14/24 08:05 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 260 guests, and 20 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#69481 09/10/06 11:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
I believe exit signs need their own separate circuit in a commercial building?
Any other conditions?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
#69482 09/10/06 12:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Exit signs need to be supplied by the local lighting circuit unless the area fits the exception of 700.12(E).

If you can and decide to use the exception then they must be on a dedicated circuit with breaker lock.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#69483 09/12/06 01:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
A
aldav53 Offline OP
Member
I do not see anything about having an exit sign on a separate circuit in the art 700 area in the NEC. Am I correct on this?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
#69484 09/12/06 09:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
There once was a practice that exit and emergency lighting not only had their own circuit- the circuit originated at the service entrance, before the panel. They wanted to ensure that no one ever turned it off!

That practice has gone away, mainly because of the economy of battery back-up units. You'll stikk encounter it though.

#69485 09/12/06 05:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
In this area and I imagine most Exit signs are required to be illuminated.

To that end they are either suppled from an emergency generator circuit and will likely be tied into the local emergency lighting circuit.

Or

They have battery back up either self contained or remote.

Once an exit sign is backed up with a battery it becomes "Unit Equipment" and the rules of 700.12(E) apply.

700.12(E) is long but requires unit equipment to be supplied by the local lighting circuit.

part of 700.12(E)
Quote
The branch circuit feeding the unit equipment shall be the same branch circuit as that serving the normal lighting in the area and connected ahead of any local switches.

If you read all the way to the end of 700.12(E) you will see this exception that sometimes allows a dedicated circuit to supply unit equipment.

Quote
Exception: In a separate and uninterrupted area supplied by a minimum of three normal lighting circuits, a separate branch circuit for unit equipment shall be permitted if it originates from the same panelboard as that of the normal lighting circuits and is provided with a lock-on feature.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#69486 09/12/06 07:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Bob,
We have been down this road before and I still don't agree that the exit light has to be on the general lighting circuit. It is my opinion that the general illumination in the area of the exit light is provided by the exit light itself and can be on any unswitched circuit. I'm also not convinced that an exit light meets the definition of unit equipment at shown in 700.12(F).
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
#69487 09/12/06 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Don I don't recall this coming up before.

What part of the definition do you disagree with?

The self contained Exit signs I install seem to meet the definition.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#69488 09/12/06 08:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Moderator
I also have never seen this argument, and have always viewed it the same way as Bob. Could you elaborate Don?


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
#69489 09/12/06 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
They say "confession is good for the soul."

If I am doing a new installation, I will put the emergency lights and exit signs on a lighting circuit. It seems to make sense to have the light go "on" when power fails to the lighting circuit.
Of course, if they control the lights by flipping breakers, this idea won't work.

In that case, or in a retrofit where circuits are a mess, I tie the exit signs and bugeyes into and convenient unswitched circuit. This, at least, ensures lighting in the event of a PoCo failure.

The only joker in this deck is that we have at least one Fire Inspector who can't be bothered to use the 'test' buttons; rather, he wants to flip breakers. I mark the assorted breakers with red tape just for him!

#69490 09/12/06 10:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Two things...the definition of unit equiment covers emergency lights very cleary, but doesn't really cover illuminated signs. Second there is no safety reason to have the exit lights on the area lighting circuit...it doesn't change anything...the exits lights do their job either way.


Don(resqcapt19)
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5