ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues 10-2 for a sub pabel?

Larry,
What code section permits the use of the bare conductor as the grounded conductor for this application?
Don

Don, I think that the method Larry suggested is more the result of poor diting in the code, than any specific intent. Lacking any metal conduit, or other means for a 'parallel path,' some have been making the panel at the detached building a "main."

Otherwise, to play "devils' advocate,' where does it say the grounded conductor needs to be insulated? I see plenty of places where the code say "...the grounded conductor, IF insulated...."

John,
Look at this.
Where is the section that says this grounded conductor can be bare?
Don

Don, you make a very good point. I agree with you that the "Grounded" conductor needs to be insulated. There are 2 place in the code that I found that allows the "Grounded" conductor to be "covered"one is 250.140. The other instant is for Service Conductors as found in 230.41. But your correct about the "Grounded" conductor. Looks like Trick440 is stuck with a 120v. sub panel

Wow guys thanks.

And the background on this 10-2 wire is... It was used for a Jacuzzi that is long gone. It will now be turned into a 110v sub panel, to power a 110v pool pump.

Don..lest we get too far off-topic... 200.6 starts off with "An insulated grounded conductor...," leaving open the possibility that a grounded conductor might not be insulated. Indeed, nost services have bare grounded conductors.
Section 200 returns to this several times when discussing the marking of grounded conductors; it always leaves the door open for the grounded conductor to be bare.

Closer to topic, a few issues back, the IAEI presented the scenario -power to a second building- to three of it's experts, and got four answers!

Let's have a little race.... first one to find the part of the ROP that would require a separate ground in this situation will go to the 2008 forum and start a thread! :-)

I'm with the " neutral grounded only at the service " crowd.

I'd use the 10-2 strickly as a 120V branch feeder. I'd use a dinky sub-panel to permit breakout loads such as lights.

If the only load is a pump, I'd land the 10-2 on a smaller breaker (20A) and use as is. I wouldn't even set a sub-panel.

Original question was: is it OK to install a sub-panel using existing 10/2 feeder?

Section 225.39(B) allows a 30 amp feeder to a structure or building if not more than two 2-wire branch circuits are connected to the sub-panel.

Section 250.32(B)(2) allows a three wire 240/120 volt feeder without an equipment grounding conductor, provided that a grounding electrode system is installed.

Assuming the 10/2 is UF and the UF is run directly to the service panel, the uninsulated (but covered) #10 conductor will be connected to the neutral bus. This becomes the neutral (grounded conductor).

I see no requirements for the grounded conductor to be insulated in Article 200. In fact, throughout Article 200, numerous mentions of "the grounded conductor, where insulated, ...". Which leads one to assume that the grounded conductor need not always be insulated.

Sounds like it would not be a problem to use 240 and 120 volts at this shed.

250.32(B)(2) causes plenty of these type of questions. I always put it in the same category as the old dryer/range 3 wire rule. I agree with Phil Simmond's proposal that killed that one "The war is over" run 4 wires. Thanks Ryan.

earlydean,
John,
That may be true, but absent a specific provision for the use of a bare or covered grounded conductor, there would be a violation of 310.2(A).
Don