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Joined: Feb 2002
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Greg,
You should know me by now, the reason I asked the question is because some AHJ's up here are requiring the EC to run a "Bond" wire all the way back to the electrical panel or sub panel. I agree with you that a bond wire isn't needed at all, the way I read the NEC. I just wanted others opinions on this subject.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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The FPN in 680.23(A) says it all
FPN:This section does not require that the 8 AWG or larger solid copper bonding conductor be extended or attached to any remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode.
Greg Fretwell
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Article 680 Part VII for hydromassage bathtubs (jacuzzi). In your particular case I would take a #8 and go from the bonding lug on the motor and return it to another bonding lug on the same motor, about an inch or so from the first lug. Cause why not? There ain't nothing else to bond to unless this particular tub is made out of iron and even then the code would not require it. Spa's and hot tubs are in a different part of 680 and have different rules. Lots of inspectors get it all mixed up and so do lots of electricians.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Harold:
Ok, you met the 'guy' requiring a bond back to the panel?? Is he the same 'guy" requiring driven grd rods (2) at spa/hot-tubs (outside). Spa/HT being recirculating non-drained, chemically/ozone treated heat maintained water with/without air injection??
OK; IF there's a bond lug on the pump motor, a bond is required to all metalic piping, supply/drain, etc. If the plumbing is plastic, you have no where to bond. As to the 'spout'.....I would say IF it's 4" square (16 Sq Inches) I would request it to be bonded. NOTE I said REQUEST
Let the debate continue??
John
John
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There is no requirement or need to run the #8 back to the panel.
There is no need or requirement to bond the "spout" regardless of how big or small it is as it is not a "metal piping system" or "grounded metal part in contact with the circulating water".
John, on what would you base your request? When does an inspector have the authority to make requests vs enforcing the code?
680.74
All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a solid copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.
[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 03-09-2006).]
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Electricmanscott:
Reference is 680.62 (B). Although it is under the heading VI, and not VII.
As I said "request", not 'require'. I don't have my own 'code', but the '02 NEC, as adopted and 'amended' by the State of NJ.
The debate over part VI, and Part VII has been kicked around for some time by various AHJ's, ad the State.
Scott, you are right, it's not required, as written, hence "request"
John
John
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The code is quite clear on the issue. The code clearly states part VII for hydromassage bathtubs. The code is less stringent for these than hot tubs or pools. Any thing else is a misaplication of the code period.
Now a "request" should be considered, since an unhappy inspector is a costly inspector. However if one requested I run a #8 all the way back to the panel, I will be requesting he leave the property pronto. And next morning I will be "requesting" a more competent individual be sent out to do the inspection. Unless I can change his mind first of course.
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You can request anything you want. With that request you better have your checkbook with you to pay for it because it is not coming out of my pocket. If it is not required the story ends there.
As for the tub 680.62 (B) just does not apply to hydromassage tubs.
Parts VI and VII are for two completely different pieces of equipment. Neither applies to tthe other.
Just for curiousity John why would you make the request? It really sounds like "I like it that way" code even though you say it is not.
[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 03-10-2006).]
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Joined: Apr 2002
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OK, I have to 'defend' what I said.....
First, I'm not the #8 back to the panel guy, nor am I the drive the rods guy.
Second; IF an EC/HO made the inquiry that Harold started this thread with, I would offer an explanation as follows:
Bonding the spigot/spout at/for/on/near a whirlpool (Jacuzzi) tub is NOT REQUIRED. OK, but if it's a 'theraputic' tub (patients treatment) it IS REQUIRED; should I bond it on my "Jacuzzi"????
My response will/would be "YES, you can/may, if you want to, but it is NOT required." Questions from EC/HO's similar to "what would you do"??? I would reply "I would bond it; but the NEC does not require that"
I used the word "request" previously, and I have to admit it was a poor choice at the time, instead of the explanation above.
As I said, I don't have my "own code"; I appologize for taking a 'verbal short-cut'.
John
John
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John,
Sorry I disappered but I was busy last week. I am not the AHJ that requested the #8 go back to the panel, nor do I request the ground rods at hot tubs. I still am surprised at how many EC's ask me these questions. they tell me that the AHJ from XYZ town wants the #8 back to the panel. I asked him the same question I asked here. "Where is it in the code book?" Of course they can't find it but the AHJ required it. I reminded them that the AHJ by code has to cite, chapter and verse where it is written in the code book. Too many AHJ's around here tell the EC, "You look it up." or something like that. I always tell them to take the AHJ to the Const. Board of Appeals. However they don't want to take the time off and lose money. So the bad AHJ wins again.
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