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#96501 12/02/05 09:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 2
Cat Servant
Member
There is no requirement that GFCI receptacles be readily accessible. We've all had to spend serious amounts of time troubleshooting a dead circuit- only to discover a GFI buried in some obscure corner.

Some code changes have indirectly aproached this issue, by requiring dedicated circuits for different areas that also require GFI protection.

However, the code is famous for not "grasping the nettle", seeming to prefer that we do things in a roundabout way.

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#96502 12/03/05 04:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Quote
There is no requirement that GFCI receptacles be readily accessible. We've all had to spend serious amounts of time troubleshooting a dead circuit- only to discover a GFI buried in some obscure corner.

What is commonly done and passes often has little to do with what the code may require if you take the time to read the sections with an open mind it can be surprising.

Quote
From the UL White Book

"Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (KCXS)...

I am well aware of that UL section. It does not change my opinion that GFCIs must be readily accessible. [Linked Image]

Again read the definition of switch and the scope of 404. [Linked Image]

JMO, and I will continue to install all my GFCIs readily accessible.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#96503 12/03/05 07:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 33
N
Member
did you see a receptacle at grade level in the front and back of the house?
see article 210.52 (e) states you need a receptacle within 6.5 feet from grade.

#96504 12/03/05 08:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
E
Member
In CT we reworded the NEC for hydromassage tubs to require the GFCI protection be located in a readily accessible location.

"Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means." Clearly, under the tub is accessible.

"Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth." Just as clearly, under the tub is not readily accessible.


The wording for switch locations in 404.8(A))says: "All switches and circuit breakers used as switches shall be located so that they may be operated from a readily accessible place." It doesn't say must be in a readily accessible location, only that you can reach them from the readily accessible location by extending your arm.
As far as height goes, there is no lower limit, only an upper limit. The wording of the code would allow foot operated switches, or could require one to lie on his belly to operate the switch.

422.16(A) allows the use of a flexible cord and receptacle for appliances.
422.33(A) makes it clear that the cord and plug at the motor location is considered an ACCESSIBLE disconnect.
680.71 requires GFCI protection, which can be located (except in CT) under the skirting, so long as it is accessible, but does not have to be readily accessible.

To answer the first post, if your GFCI is a circuit breaker, then, yes it must be in a readily accessible location according to 240.24(A), otherwise, in the soffit is OK, but not too wise.

To answer the post about GFCI receptacles being also "switches", I would have to disagree. The definition of "supplemental overcurrent protection" would better fit. (There being three components to overcurrent: short circuit, ground fault and overload.) A switch is meant to switch the current from on to off and on again, or one path to another.


Earl
#96505 12/04/05 12:10 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
M
Member
Bob's take on the gfi as being a switch is very interesting. I would like to take some time to filter this concept through my brain for a while. I am already begining to bend, and think that you might be right as usual about this one also.

#96506 12/04/05 09:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
S
Member
I believe the GFCI is NOT switch because if conductors inside the box are pigtailed only the the device will trip and the rest of the circuit will remain energized. Though I do agree that ALL GFCI receptacles should be readily accessible. This has been a heckuva thought provoking topic, for sure.

#96507 12/04/05 09:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Hi all, first off never take anyones word for anything, including mine.

Read the code sections and make up your own minds.

This is what I see.

The scope of Article 404 states.

Quote
404.1 Scope.
The provisions of this article shall apply to all switches, switching devices, and circuit breakers where used as switches.

I look in article 100 and there is only definitions of certain kinds of switches not just the the word 'switch'

That being the case we have to use the common definition of switch which is

Quote
Switch a device for making, breaking, or changing the connections in an electrical circuit

Without a doubt a GFCI contains a switch in the form of a relay and without a doubt the test and reset buttons are also switches.

My interest is in the test and reset buttons, the internal relay IMO is not in the scope of the NEC.

The test and reset buttons are IMO switches that must conform to 404.8

Let me ask this.

If we where talking about a large piece of machinery with a factory installed disconnect switch would you find it acceptable for that factory installed disconnect switch to serve as the disconnecting means if it was 10' in the air?

Why would the test and reset buttons be treated any differently?

JMO, Bob



[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 12-04-2005).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#96508 12/04/05 11:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 8
S
New Member
Because the soffit GFCI is not disconnecting equipment for servicing, or replacement.

I have yet to see a GFCI that is listed for switching duty. By the nature of its designed and purpose, a person could use it as a switch, but it is listed as a recepticle.

#96509 12/04/05 11:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 28
M
Member
The Leviton faceless GFI is indeed listed for use as a switch, it says "SWITCH" on the face and the red and black test and reset buttons are also marked "ON" and "OFF" that is a switch if I ever saw one!

#96510 12/04/05 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
Steener welcome to ECN.

Quote
Because the soffit GFCI is not disconnecting equipment for servicing, or replacement.

Fair enough.

Can you show me where in 404.8 or anywhere in 404 that states it only applies to switches used as disconnecting means? [Linked Image]

404.1 says All switches.

404.8 says All switches

Where does it say switches used as disconnecting means? [Linked Image]

Bob


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 12-04-2005).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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