ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Damaged outlets

IMHO: 1) shorting a live circuit to find the breaker is plain dumb bordering on insane.
2) shorting a _dead_ circuit without tagging it is borderline dumb. If there is a significant risk of the short causing problems at the switchgear, then shorting a dead circuit without tagging is negligent, possibly criminally negligent.
3) shorting a repeatedly _tested_ dead circuit as a final check is pretty reasonable
4) bolting to ground a _dead_, clearly _locked and tagged_ high energy circuit is intelligent self preservation

Note that the latter introduces its own safety hazard; what happens if _you_ forget to remove your own intentional ground connection? I'd be tempted to introduce an additional lock, with the key attached to the ground connection, so that the circuit could not be re-energized without confirmation that the ground connection has been removed.

-Jon

I'm just curious. How many of you have LOTO energy sources, confirmed that circuit is dead and then later found out you had locked out the wrong energy source. I have seen this happen a number of times. When you lock out a circuit, please be sure it is the correct one. If the wrong one is locked out and you have short circuited the circuit where you are working on it. Even with siren in place you won't hear anything other than the kaboooom on other end.

quote" When you lock out a circuit, please be sure it is the correct one. If the wrong one is locked out and you have short circuited the circuit where you are working on it. Even with siren in place you won't hear anything other than the kaboooom on other end."

Actually if you were to try to do it as stated above, the "kaboom" will be in your hands right where you are. If you locked out the wrong circuit, obviously, you will now be shorting out a live circuit. Hope it isn't much above 120 v at 20 amps if you do this mistake.

Take a look here:
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000239.html


Edited to add:


Rated circuit ampacity won't make you safer in that case. It is the available short circuit current and impedance of the system wiring that makes a difference. I have personally witnessed the effects of accidental shorts on so-called 120/20 circuits in cinemas served by a nearby network transformer..the resulting arc flash would have caused serious injury to anyone nearby. The devices in question were totally destroyed. Those facilities all had "Series Rated" panels at all locations.

To twist a common phrase here, "It's not the size of the dog, but the size of the bark."

[This message has been edited by mxslick (edited 09-21-2005).]

Having other trades -- typically rockers -- hunting for line power because we need to kill some circuits is the root problem.

On my jobs I always specifically attend to the other guy's power situation. Before I kill circuits I provide alternate sources -- even if it means lending cords. Usually all that is needed is to point out alternate power.

Stopping the rocker is as upsetting to him as his counter action is to us. In fact most rockers would regard it as us or them.

That is the mentality behind all of these terribly idiotic cut locks.

Lock-outs should have a legend tag warning of criminal liabilty for harm inflicted due to unlawful removal.

Really cool how the topic derived from a small nec question to an OSHA debate:-)