ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Proving Intent- Inspectors dilema

I'm with George. Permit holder representative to meet on job to prove switch is properly wired. Much easier to do with rececptacle. George would probably not ask for any help on these outlets.

Mark, I don't think people frown on it, it's just that by its own admission, it doesn't hold any weight as far as being code.

Dlhoule, after I was asked to meet an inspector one time for this, in the future I would simply run a three wire to a receptacle in close proximity or directly below the switch and split this receptacle. I would then leave the conductors to the light capped off and tagged in the switch box, install a blank cover over the "future" fixture rough in and be in total compliance with the NEC.

A red tag after this would be an abuse of power by an inspector simply not liking the installation wouldn't it?

Roger

Roger,


Just because that is the case in many areas doesn't mean it is wise or even sensible. I honestly find it hard to believe any village would require final inspection before they would allow hook-up. You would have to at least have another inspection afterward. Maybe they should rethink a few things. How can you inspect something to see if it is done properly without power?

I used to work for a guy that if we were running behind on the job and the inspector was on the way, we cut 3' sections of wire to represent what was going to be in there and ran around stuffing them in the pipes. There were times we would go to see why a room was dead, and as we looked found the sraps never got replaced.

But to follow the topic a little further, what if you walked into a final inspection and saw all lighting outlets blanked. No fixture in the kitchen, bath, hallways, stairways, storage area or outside. Would you still let it go? where is that line drawn? Would you really allow a final without a stairway light???

Let me guess what some might respond. "It's all okay except for the outside because the code reads 'and to provide illumination on the exterior side of outdoor entrances or exits with grade level access'(NEC '99 210-70(a)(2)) And obviously a blank can't provide illumination."

Jps,
If the NEC or some other applicable code doesn't mandate it, I would have to let it go. If I were an inspector I could not make up my own rules.

If you were given a traffic ticket for making a right turn on red, even though it is allowed, yet this one officer thinks its safer if you didn't, (it probably is in some situations) what would you do?

Would you pay it or fight it?

Adopted laws and codes are all that can be enforced.

Once again, you may want to make a proposal.

As a contractor wanting to make material sales, it would benefit me to have "Luminaires" required in all rooms and even a code that would force the owners to buy an extra (spare if you will) for each room from the EC.


Roger

Well that would be a logical argument.

This is absurd to me at this point.

The code making panel members know the difference between a lighting outlet and a Luminaire (Fixture) or lamp holder.

Are we to believe that these CMP members decided to require light fixtures but did not want the code to clear so instead made a collective decision to use a well known and clearly defined term that does not mean light fixtures?

Thats ludicrous.

Using the NECs own definitions 210.70 clearly does not require luminaires to be installed.

Okay Bob and the rest of you guys: I can become a real pain in the A** when I think your trying to play games so here's the plan:

Blank up the switched lighting outlet > call the inspection > meet me there with a ladder > I'll operate the switch > you remove the blank cover and put your wiggy on the wires and we will indeed determine that you satisfied the code by having a switched outlet. A few inspections like this and I think a keyless makes more sense.

If the lamp lights, its wired properly??

George, see my 1:36 PM post.

I would show up with out a ladder, simply open the switch box, and you would have no violation (in reality, there would have been nothing you would need to check in the first place) to tag me with when I left.


Roger



[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 07-30-2005).]

So can I..... oh wait..... you all know that already.

What code section says an inspector has to verify operation?

I know all areas are different but in this area inspectors do not check the operation of the circuits. Oh they may check a GFCI button or two but none of them check even .1% of my circuits.

Bob

I'm kind of surprised that this has become an issue.

I have seen many "final" inspections where the luminaires were not present- especially in tract homes. It is a given that lighting is a matter of great personal taste, and it's probably best to let the ocupant choose the fixture.
This has especially been the case where it is likely that the ocupant will want some sort of chandelier or ceiling fan.

I do have a habit of placing keyless fixtures, especially in windowless rooms, for the convenience of everyone. This practice has never elicited any reaction than surprised delight :-).