ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Mobile Home Feeder

The critical question is the size of the unit. If it is an over width (>8') or over length (>40') unit or it is more than 320 square feet then it is a manufactured home rather than a mobile home. In other words anything larger than a single wide forty footer is not a mobile home. If it is a manufactured home then the service lateral can be run directly to the home under the provisions of section 550.32 (B) of the US NEC.

"550.32 Service Equipment.
(B) Manufactured Home Service Equipment. The manufactured home service equipment shall be permitted to be installed in or on a manufactured home, provided that all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The manufacturer shall include in its written installation instructions information indicating that the home shall be secured in place by an anchoring system or installed on and secured to a permanent foundation.
(2) The installation of the service equipment shall comply with Article 230.
(3) Means shall be provided for the connection of a grounding electrode conductor to the service equipment and routing it outside the structure.
(4) Bonding and grounding of the service shall be in accordance with Article 250.
(5) The manufacturer shall include in its written installation instructions one method of grounding the service equipment at the installation site. The instructions shall clearly state that other methods of grounding are found in Article 250.
(6) The minimum size grounding electrode conductor shall be specified in the instructions.
(7) A red warning label shall be mounted on or adjacent to the service equipment. The label shall state the following:
WARNING DO NOT PROVIDE ELECTRICAL POWER UNTIL THE GROUNDING ELECTRODE(S) IS INSTALLED AND CONNECTED (SEE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS).
Where the service equipment is not installed in or on the unit, the installation shall comply with the other provisions of this section." Copyright 2002 the National Fire Protection Association.

You may have gotten yourself in a needles bind by referring to a larger unit as a mobile home. Call up the poco engineers and explain the situation so that they will back off the changes or the other local sparkies will be calling you everything they can think of except maybe a nice guy.
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Tom H

[This message has been edited by tdhorne (edited 12-03-2004).]

Hi,
Thanks for the replies.

The code states that for the "purpose of this CODE and unless otherwise indicated, the term mobile home includes manufactured homes. What does that mean exactly?

Where the service equipment is NOT installed in or on the unit, the installation shall comply with the other provisions of this section. What does that mean exactly?

I am assuming that "THIS SECTION" is the complete article and not just 550.32, so in this case the 30 foot rule applies, right?

The unit is 28' x 52', WXL assembled at the site.

It is not my intent to stir up any trouble with anyone, it may happen but should I not inquire?

Are you saying that since there are other installations on the same line that are not meeting the NEC that my fellow electricians will be upset if I myself try to meet the code? That I too should follow the presedence that has already been set? Not every MOBILE HOME OR MANUFACTURED HOME on the line exceeds the limits given.

Since the Manufactured home is different from the MOBILE HOME then my mistake is that I failed to notice the difference. But that is why I am asking.

But since I have not done any work and I am only researching the installation where is the problem?

Myself I would rather have the disconnect 30 feet from the trailer rather than 100 feet. I think it is safer in a way, if I was a fireman I would want it 100 feet away!

According to what you are quoting , I do not even need a disco outside.

The POCO pays for the wire from their pole to the disconnect, all I provide is the 3" conduit, some one-hole straps and a pull string and dig the trench.

I will defer to the wisdom of the members of the site and if you all say that I am connecting a MANUFACTURED HOME instead of a MOBILE HOME then I will notify the POCO and let them know the mistake I made and make them aware of the difference.

I purchased a CSED for this installation instead of a Pedestal. I want to be able to provide for a generator connection. The owner wants it close to the building the existing cutler hammer panel is a main breaker and I am not sure if it will accept a generator kit.

Anyway, I am still glad I asked the questions here and if somebody gets mad and wants to take offense my apologies. I would rather aska dumb question than not know for sure.

One more question, if this is a MANUFATURED HOME then, I can MOUNT THE CSED on the unit istelf, correct?

Thanks again for all the help.

-regards

MUSTANG



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 12-03-2004).]

Mustang,

Yes, the 30 foot rule applies mobile home or manufactured home. I'm glad your POCO finally decided to take a gander at the NEC. They may or may not be liable for any of the existing installations where the distance exceeds 30 feet, but they could be named as a defendent in any future lawsuits. This is one of the reasons why our POCO now requires an inspection of all service entrances and the feeder to the mobile home

I have visited the site you posted & the fine print at the bottom indicates that the cable is UL listed as "USE" and RHH and RHW. These markings would be printed on the cable also.

Prior to the 2002 NEC, USE could not be used indoors at all because it did not have to have flame retardant insulation. By having the additional listing of RHW, it could be installed in a raceway & there would be no restriction on the length installed indoors. 338.10(B)(4)(b) now allows up to 6 feet of USE indoors & the cable would not need the RHW listing if it does not exceed 6 feet.

Around here, the service for a mobile home is mounted on a customer furnished 25' pole for overhead service. The installation of the feeder from the pole to the mobile home is the responsibility of the person that wants power, not the POCO. ALso, the POCO furnishes a drawing to the customer that shows the 30- foot maximum distance along with their requirements.

As a side note, I hate inspecting mobile home services installed by non-electricians, the failure rate is about 80 to 90%.

As side note #2, congratulations on doing some homework here. You'd be surprised at the number of electricians that don't even realize that there is an entire section of the code that deals with mobile/manufactured homes.

Tom

Tom,
I appreciate the professional reply. I myself will be the first to admit that although I have been around them all my life I have only installed a handful of services for mobile homes. Why? Because most people try to do it themselves. I have seen a lot of places especially in Kentucky where there used to not be any permit requirement or any requirement to have a licensed electrician or they will give the permit to the homeowner(there are a lot of places like this in arkansas) and the inspectors would basically end up directing the homeowner or whomever in the correct procedure. It may take a few trips but eventually either through a legal installation or either through frustration the connection would be made.

A lot of places go by what the inspector at the time likes to see. I know there are a lot of inspectors who post and read on this site so please do not get me wrong..I respect the inspector..myself i like an inspection, it gives me some satisfaction to have another person agree that the work i have done meets the requirements of the NEC etc.

I am not the best electrician in the world but I am not afraid of asking questions to folks I know I can rely on. I always look at the sections of the nec and I always like to hear what other electricians have to say. I think a true electrician is very interested in the work in general and chatting about the trade and it never ceases to amaze me how interesting a simple question can turn into a very educating experience.

I hope all the boys in my neck of the woods do not get the red a** over this but what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong.

I would have ended up doing it the way the concensus agreed.

I usually do not turn a screw driver until i have thouroughly researched even the simplest jobs. Residential is one of the most complex articles in the code and i learn everyday.

I found out a long time ago it does not take a big mistake to cost a lot of dollars when it involves electrical work!

I was curious to know the reasoning behind the URD comments.

I guess it just goes to prove once again that this site has a definite purpose and a long future.

Maybe 20 years from now we can look back and read this stuff and get a smile on our face when we remember the good ole days!

Thanks for all the replies.

-regards

MUSTANG



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 12-03-2004).]

MUSTANG
I wasn't trying to be actually critical of your asking and I guess I need to be clearer when I'm jesting. As I read the section you can mount your equipment on the unit since it exceeds the 320 gross square feet of floor area which makes it a manufactured home. The difference between the two is that you can readily relocate a mobile home while it is generally impractical to relocate a manufactured home. The code goes to some length to define the difference between mobile and manufactured homes. The only difference I can see in how the code treats them is that you can mount the service equipment on a manufactured home.
--
Tom H

Hi,
Thanks for the reply Tom, no explanation needed. E-mail and BBB's can tend to leave out a lot.

I appreciate the information and the advice.

I will be mounting the CSED on two 4"X"$ treated post embedded 24" in quickrete and half-strut gold and spring nuts to hold it on.

I looked at mounting on the unit but I really think that material will give out eventually. I think mounting it next to the unit (6" away) I read that the bottom of the panel should be no closer than 24" so I will watch that.

Thanks again for the replies and help.

-regards

Mustang

Tdhorne, it appears you are trying to read between the lines (of code) when it comes to the definition of a mobile home. If you read both the definition of a mobile and a manufactured home, you should realize your mistake. The code DOES NOT say that all units larger than 8X12 or 320ft.sq. are always manufactured homes. It only says that is the minimum size for a manufactured home. Mobile homes can be either bigger or smaller than the dimentions given.

triple Wrote: I believe that the essential difference is that a mobile home is mounted on a single chassis. The effect that has is that it can be moved without disassembly. A manufactured home on the other hand is built in sections and then assembled on site. In order to relocate the manufactured unit you would have to disassemble the building back into it's individual modules.
--
Tom H

Wow, what a thread. Almost to much to read, let alone understand.

In Colorado, all homes such as these are to be approved by the state. They decide if it is a manufactured home, using the UBC, or a mobile home, using the HUD standard. either way, there is a sticker mounted on it to identify it.

If it is a manufactured home, then you can put the service equipment on the outside face of the home. From there you run into a distribution panel. If the metering is over 30' from the home, then installing this equipment on the side of the home will comply with code to get the disconnect correctly installed.

You can never run into a home (manufactured or stick built) more than a few feet at the most, without an outside disconnect.

A mobile home is treated much the same, but you can never install the service equipment directly to the home. 1" to 30' away is ok, but not on it.

Another thing about USE wire. This type of cable (USE & USE-2) cannot be run into a building. The older style you mention could be run from the meter pole to the pedistal, or other outside disconnect, but not into the home. This info is in the UL white book.

I do agree that Article 550 is for all homes of this type, not just those in parks. The only thing that it does not cover is the actual wiring (inside) of the home. This falls under a federal standard, but this standard does include alot of NEC driven rules, such as GFCI etc... There are other rules that wouldn't see the light of day in the NEC, such as a panel in a closet, which is allowable under the federal standard.

Rick Miell