ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues GF BREAKER or STANDARD?

I would definitely go with individual GFI breakers if possible.

Many installations here in Britain use a single GFI to protect the entire house, and I can assure you that it can be a real pain when the whole system goes down due to a fault on one circuit.

(Yes, I speak from experience! Having a heating element develop a ground fault and trip out the entire house while taking a shower at night does little to endear the main GFI system to anyone! )

Hi,

the pool company used #8 stranded and has already backfilled. the wire is ran from the wet niche to a bolt and secured by being wrapped around the bolt and secured with a nut then is brought over to the pump pad.

i would not be allowed to terminate a stranded conductor to my equipment coming from the pool would I?

thanks for the great replies.

-regards

Mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 10-29-2004).]

Mustang,

will the AHJ allow the stranded?

there is no depth requirment for the #8 solid bond. run it over grade and let the landscapers drop sod over it.

above the code - IMHO the real safety issue is the bolt and nut. is it stainless steel (SS)? if not, it will rust away in a few years. i keep a case of bond hardware. everything in the case is SS, brass, bronze or copper (UG listed if possible). nuts, bolts, external tooth lock washers, lugs and split bolts, all corrosion resistent for the wet, chemical laden environment of a pool.

Hi,
The pool co has obviously been doing pools for some time..i cant imagine that they do not know they need a solid conductor...

i do not know if the ahj will allow it or not...i did not install it and it is not my job...i was just wondering where i stand on liability...they will have to terminate the wire if they leave it..

the ahj can override the code?

thanks for the replies

-regards

Mustang

I got a fight started on the Florida IAEI bb when I suggested that pool companies were installing this wire. Their take is this should be done by a licensed electrician. If they are using stranded for the bonding grid maybe the IAEI is right. The only place you can use the stranded is from the wet niche to the light junction box in a PVC raceway. They call that a grounding wire, not a bonding wire.

mustang

"i did not install it and it is not my job...i was just wondering where i stand on liability"

typically, the electric permit is pulled under your license. if so, then:

1. this violation will be applied against that permit. so, your license is on the line until the violation is cleared.

2. you represent the NEC for the entire permitted job. you are 100% liable for work covered by the NEC, whether the inspector gigs you or not.

IMO, running the bond, pulling the lights, etc. are favors the pool contractor does for the electrician so the electrician can complete a pool in one trip. treat them as if an employee had done the work. correct the mistakes, charge for it if you can, gently teach the contractor and move on.

good luck

This is what one of the CBOs said on the IAEI bb
"As far as the pool guy.... well, if I catch him it will be a $500.00 ticket for unlicensed contracting, or an appearance before the judge."

gfretwell, I wish more AHJ's would slap a fine for being unlicensed. I believe it would help weed out the ham & egger fly by night outfits.

Al

[This message has been edited by capt al (edited 10-30-2004).]

I feel that the electrical contractor (EC)should do all of the work. However now a days, they don't. I see where excavators will dig trenchs and install PVC pipe for the EC. I also see where pool companies have specialized crews to install pools. 1 crew will put in the rebar (or metal frame) and do the bonding, the next crew can come along and install the equipment and underground piping. Now up to this point no electrical wire has been pulled. Then the EC comes in and makes all of the connections. Is it wrong? What about an excavator who leaves a large piece of electrical PVC under a driveway so that the EC can hook up into that pipe sometime in the future. A service line or driveway lights, etc. As long as the pipe is the correct type of pipe, the proper about of bends and the proper depth, is there a problem?

The guys over in the Fl IAEI bb say the bonding is also "electrical" and needs to be done by the EC, not the pool steel company but the reality is anyone the EC would send for this 2 minute job might not be as good as a pool guy who does 2 a day.
The inspector took about 30 seconds to look at mine. (6 handrail cups, 2 wet niche shells and the steel). No he really didn't look at much of anything.

As for driveway sleeves, around here they drop in a 4" white PVC. FPL (contractor) will push their 2" through it if they need to get over there and you might also see a sprinkler line or TV cable shoved in later.
The reality is none of this will be inspected.
My wife said her structural inspector was complaining that he had 42 to do on Thursday, along with driving about 50-60 miles. It's a wonder they see anything.