ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Accessibility Question

As much as it makes sense that we know where to look for a JB what code section could be used to fail what Pete describes?

An inspector can not fail something just because they do not like it, or for what may happen in the future.

Bob

Bob
you are up early today
In my inspection, this installation as described would get a 'redtag', not because I do not like, but because the NEC requires jboxes to be accessible, and behind floor boards that are screwed down is stretching the 'semantics' a bit too far.

Floor boards with tongue and groove -
Let me see I put it under this board, whoops no it was this board, whoops no it was this board, whoops no it was ....

I just read 314.29
"Boxes and conduit bodies shall be installed so that the wiring contained in them can be rendered accessible witout removing any part of the building or, "...

The definition may not make mention of removing the wall/floor , but 314.29 is very specific about removing the wall or floor finish.
As in Pete's first post, we seemed to have read right over it.

Pierre

Pierre, taking this litteraly would mean there would be no legal way to install a box in any building except mounted with the cover flush or exposed on a wall. The covered access hole, ceiling tile, etc... are all parts of the building.

Lets go back to the original post, forget the screws and go with HIDDEN finger pulls, what would you use to tag the installation in this case?

The bottom line is a screwed down floor board is not a problem and just because it is not immediatly identifiable as the "right" board doesn't mean it's a violation.

Have you ever tried to locate an attic access in a ceiling with locking type tiles where there is a hidden group of four that is the access and nobody knows which group is the removable group? Would you be able to have them change the ceiling because the access is not easy to find?

BTW,
Is the sheetrock taped and mudded? If not I'd have to think the screws were left exposed for a reason, could be there is something behind it that needs to be accessable.

Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 08-16-2004).]

In my opinion the floor boards have "permanently closed in" the box and the box is not accessible. The floor boards are intended to be a permanent part of the structure, an access panel, even when screwed in place is intended to be removed to provide access. It would get a red tag from me.
Don

Don, what if there were a HIDDEN access to a crawl space that as said before was made to fit without nailing in place? (I still say an uncovered screw is a removable fastener no matter what it is holding in place)

Why is going below a building any different then going above a building with an identified access or not?

Take a "Bead Board" ceiling and screw every piece including the one or more that would allow entrance to the attic, looking at it it would be imposible to know which would be which, is this a violation?

Remember there is atleast one that is by definition and design an access into the attic and is being held in place by screws.

Roger

Roger,
If I can't see that it is an access panel then, it gets a red tag. If the floor is marked or a section has a "trim ring" like your attic entry, I would OK it, but just the fact that the floor is screwed in place with visible screws doesn't cut it for me. There has to be some clear indication that access is intended.
Again, it gets a red tag, because I can't find or identify an access point.
Don

Don, besides the common sense aspect and good workmanship principals, which You and Pierre are using in you judgment, (and which I appreciate and agree with for the record) where is the requirement for accesses to be recognizable.

I have found locating a jbox buried in blown in insulation to be much more frustrating than backing out a few screws in the wrong place.

If a house had no inside access at all and the vent (held in place by screws ) on the gable end was the only access but was not marked as such, could an inspector make the homeowner install an inside access with a trim or mark the vent with big letters?

If so, what article or definition would be applicable?

Roger

Roger
If the 'accessible' is not recognizable, is it accessible?

Pierre

How about if you took a sharpie pen and wrote "electrical access panel" on the board in question?

I would be very tempted to mount the j-boxes flush with the upper flooring surface, and cutting some 8x8-inch pieces of ¼-inch steel diamond plate for covers—drilling holes to match the 1-, 2-gang or 4-square j-boxes. ;-}