ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by gfretwell - 04/23/24 03:03 PM
Old low volt E10 sockets - supplier or alternative
by gfretwell - 04/21/24 11:20 AM
Do we need grounding?
by gfretwell - 04/06/24 08:32 PM
UL 508A SPACING
by tortuga - 03/30/24 07:39 PM
Increasing demand factors in residential
by tortuga - 03/28/24 05:57 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 516 guests, and 17 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 6 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
#87726 05/04/04 07:14 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
R
Member
Tom, I for one anxiously await the answer/s [Linked Image]

Roger

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
 

#87727 07/12/04 09:08 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
R
Member
Tom, is there any update to your request for the formal interpretation?

Roger

#87728 07/12/04 10:23 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
WOW! The file tag was flaming for a reason.

Just for information porposes...
Not trying to get into this...
The Handbook commentary...
Not that it has anything to do with it... Just a refferance...
http://home.mindspring.com/~e57/310156.htm


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#87729 07/13/04 07:08 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 162
C
Member
The following is a paste from the ROP and the ROC for the 2005 NEC to Artcle 310.15 (B) (6)

I have left the names in the paste to give credit to those who attempt to improve the readability of the Code. This is a public document so I do not believe it is an issue.

I have checked the TCR's and ROP's and ROC's back to 1992 and their is no specific language attempting to clarify the issue (untill this cycle). I could go further back but it's too late to back to work. I don not believe that this information will solve the issue but it may give insight to the complexity of writing clear concise enforseable code

ROP
Final Action: Accept in Principle in Part
Submitter: Paul Dobrowsky Holley, NY
Recommendation:
Revise as follows:
(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For individual units of one family, two-family and
Multifamily dwelling units, conductors, as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as 120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase
service-entrance conductors, service lateral conductors, and feeder conductors that serve as the main power feeder to a each dwelling unit
and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an equipment grounding conductor. For application of this section, the main power
feeder shall be the feeder(s) between the main disconnect and the lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboards(s). The feeder
conductor to a dwelling each unit shall not be required to be larger than their service-entrance conductors. The grounded conductor
shall be permitted to be smaller than the ungrounded conductors, provided the requirements of 215.2, 220.22, and 230.42 are met.
Substantiation:
The present definitions in Article 100 for One, Two, and Multifamily dwelling units, literally limit this application to a One Family
Dwelling in a separate building.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle in Part
Revise the recommended text to read as follows:
(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services and Feeders. For individual dwelling units of one family, two-family and
multifamily dwellings, conductors, as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as 120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase
service-entrance conductors, service lateral conductors, and feeder conductors that serve as the main power feeder to each dwelling unit
and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an equipment grounding conductor. For application of this section, the main power
feeder shall be the feeder(s) between the main disconnect and the lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboards(s). The feeder
conductors to a dwelling unit shall not be required to be larger than their service-entrance conductors. The grounded conductor shall be
permitted to be smaller than the ungrounded conductors, provided the requirements of 215.2, 220.22, and 230.42 are met.
Panel Statement:
The panel does not agree with changing "a dwelling" to "each" since a dwelling unit is defined in Article 100.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Affirmative: 11 Ballot Results:

ROC
Submitter: Frederic P. Hartwell, Hartwell Electrical Services, Inc.
Comment on Proposal No: 6-41
Recommendation: Accept the panel action in principle. Clarify the permissible
application of the multiple feeder allowances as one of the following four
options:
1) “… the main power feeder shall include the feeder(s) serving only loads
associated with a single dwelling unit and running to but not originating in the
lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard(s) serving the dwelling unit.”
OR
2) “… the main power feeder shall include the feeder(s) serving only loads
associated with a single dwelling unit and running to the lighting and appliance
branch-circuit panelboard(s) serving the dwelling unit.” OR
3) “… the main power feeder shall include the feeder(s) serving only dwelling
loads and running between the main disconnect and the lighting and appliance
branch-circuit panelboard(s) serving the dwelling unit.” OR
4) “… the main power feeder shall include the feeder(s) serving only dwelling
loads and running to but not originating in the lighting and appliance branchcircuit
panelboard(s) serving a particular dwelling unit.”
Report on Comments — May 2004 Copyright, NFPA NFPA 70
Substantiation: By clarifying that this note applies to dwelling units within
multifamily housing, which is well advised, the proposal raises important questions
as to exactly which panelboard feeders are within the scope of this allowance.
Options 1 and 2 exclude feeders that are comprised of dwelling loads, but
that serve multiple dwelling units. Options 3 and 4 allow such a feeder. Options
1 and 2 as a group and options 3 and 4 as a group sort out whether this allowance
applies to subpanel feeders within a dwelling unit. Dwelling unit subpanel
loads do not present the same diversity as dwelling unit panels serving the
entire dwelling unit, and thereby undercut one of the traditional supporting
assumptions underlying these allowances. However, all of these interpretations
are possible given the ambiguous “(s)” endings on the word “feeder” and
“panelboard.” CMP 6 needs to clarify exactly which feeders qualify for this
allowance.
Panel Meeting Action: Hold
Panel Statement: The panel is holding the comment for further study, because
it presents new material that has not had public review.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11

It would appear that those who write the code also find the wordin ambiguous

And as a result the CMP has put action on hold

It will be interesting to see the text of this section in 2005.

I think it will appear unchanged.

#87730 08/31/04 08:26 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
R
Member
Tom, have you heard anything on your request?

Roger

#87731 09/05/04 08:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
T
Member
Not yet.
--
Tom


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
Page 6 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5