ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Kitchen counter tops

Ryan I would have to say yes gfci protection. It is a counter top. And it seems to be part of the kitchen. Sure it looks like a desk area. Is it 29" rather than 36" high? Even if thats the case it is still couter to me. I think. The more I think the less I am sure. What I am sure about is somebody screwed up bigtime on the device color. The white looks like crap! That stuff drives me crazy.

210.52(C)Countertops. In kitchens and dining rooms of dwelling units, ....

There is a definite location(s) specified as to where the countertops are required to have receptacles, and 210.8(A)(6) requires KITCHEN countertop areas to be protected by GFCIs, not dining room countertop spaces.

Now a determination of where the countertop area is located needs to be accessed. If the drawings (prints) designate this as a dining room, than GFCI protection is not required. If the area is not designated, then the AHJ has to make a judgement call as to what the space represents.

So my answer is, if the prints say it is a dining room, it is required to have receptacle(s), but they are not required to have GFCI protection.

Pierre

I require the "desk" top/counter in kitchens/dining rooms to be GFCI.
This one is seperated from the rest of the counters more than what I see normally. I still would require it to be GFCI, just to try to stay consistent.

One more thing, if this is a counter top, why is the outlet not in a position so that it is not more than 24" from the near edge.
Should another outlet have been installed?

Russ
Where in the NEC do you see where the countertop areas of the dining room require GFCI protection?
I have the 2002 NEC here and I cannot find that requirement.

Pierre

There is no reason to GFI those desk top receps, it's a long way to the kitchen. Looks like part of the dinning room. JMHO.

Poor wording on my part.

Your right the dining room has no GFCI requirement.
This area is more of an extended eating area of the kitchen, and I think the GFCI rule applies.


[This message has been edited by russ m (edited 01-17-2004).]

zapped

You have a point, in this case the areas look like they could be considered seperate,(maybe) I still think I'd ask for the GFCI.

I guess it all comes down to perception. Is it a dining room or part of the kitchen. Most of these houses have a seperate dining room in addition to the room we see here.

I have wired some big homes and there is usually a formal dining room as Russ has mentioned. The prints will usually designate this area as a family room. What purpose would the GFCI serve in the desk/countertop area being discussed?

Pierre

A "Kitchen" will be defined in the 2005 NEC and I believe it says something about: .... "where food is Prepared" .... so that could apply to the location here if the counter was being used to "prepare food"

We will have to wait for the panel action that will become available soon.

Joe

Joe
The definition of kitchen that may be coming to us all soon is not adequate. 'Preparing' food does not make a kitchen. I prepare food on my deck, sometimes when watching a game in my family room, sometimes I shuck corn in my family room. When we have a large party, we will set up in the basement. That definition is not going to work in itself and needs to be left out or changed.

How often does the preparation have to occur, once a day, once a week, once a month, once a year, once?

When those people move into the house and use the desk area as a desk, I would be surprised to see food preparation performed there.
So Would a GFCI really be needed there, and if so why not the rest of the house - just in case.

Pierre

[This message has been edited by PCBelarge (edited 01-19-2004).]