ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues I have been doing it for 20 years

Sparky: 110.26 and 110.16 are unenforcible, dur to the phrase "require". Is this what you are talking about?

I believe that sparky is in an area with NO code enforcement by a goverment agency. If you try to insist on doing things according to the NEC you will always lose business to those who will do the job cheaper. If most of your competition is the fly by nites and someone's cousin who thinks the know electrical work because the watched a T.V. show once, and you try do it correctly but you cost more, you will have problems.
In my home state of Nebraska we have a state wide legally required inspection program with state employed inspectors. The work done is mostly of a higher quality than the areas of Iowa (outside of cities that have inspectors) that does NOT have any inspectors. The difference in pay for a journeyman can be as much as $20.00/hr. I have seen places that pay as little as $8.00/hr for a self proclamed journeyman (no test availble or required). The quality of the work is about what you would expect from those who have little if any training and who get such low pay.
The areas where permits, licensing and honest inspections occur have definitly higher quality of work and higher pay for the journeyman.
I have found that it is almost impossible to compete in those "free for all" areas. Listing quality work that meets code looses 98% of the time to a lower bid.
We have a lot of caring people on this forum. But how many of us have to cheapen our work to get jobs when the fly by nites are your normal competition.

Thank you nesparky


it is not so complex Bob.

NEC enforcement is quite inequitable from locale' to locale' with the overall level of safe installs following suit due to Mr. Handyman serving as common denominator...

I have the '02 HB on disc to e-mail and explain my concerns to customers, whom could just as well blow me off

serve as the last bastion of the NEC in a powerless position with the roof over your head at stake.... and after a while you'll realize that all the related trade orginizations could care less as well...

~S~

Thanks Earl, I will pass the number on to them.

Pierre

I have found in every area where there is lax enforcement of the codes, there is always a nitch for the contractor who touts his work as being a cut above. It may be that he can only land small jobs, but he can name his price. Reputation for quality work is hard to come by, but priceless when achieved.

True earlydean, probably the best example this forum has had was Virgil, aka 66wvsparky who aspired to rise above the 'doing it for 20 years' crowd.

however it must be said that as the code grows does it's enforcement grow proportionaly?

have all these orginizations lobbied individual states on our behalf?

seems that all i keep reading about all those frivilous jubliee's those trade associations have, guess that's where all the dues i paid out in the last decade went...

oh well....i suppose you could ask around in 2024, yet i must presume we'll have our share of the 'doin' it for 40 years' crowd rather rooted...


~S~

It is a never-ending struggle. Our system is too diverse to allow anything else. At best we have 50 states passing 50 different laws, but, many states don't have any laws on building code, or allow each and every town to pass their own. Which amounts to hundreds of differing building code laws across our land. Compounding this further is the fact that each town or military base will hire their own inspector with his own biases and interpretations. No wonder the electrician is confused. Thank God we have the NFPA, and the NEC. It is our trades saving grace.

who's struggle should it be earlydean ?

the NEC and NFPA both start with National don't they? one would think they could act accordingly with some level of harmony with state constituency

really, how many of these 'gotta edj-o-cate those 'lectricians' threads do we need endure here in cyberspace ?

don't they work for us?

~S~

Sparky just how do expect the NFPA to force any State, City or Town to adopt the NEC.

The only way the Federal govt. gets States to do what the feds want is by extortion, do this or we will not give you x dollars.

If you want the NEC adopted/enforced in your area you will have to lobby your political types to do so.

As one of those working in states that have strong use and enforcement of the NEC I have no desire to see the NFPA throwing away money lobbing for adoption in areas that are not interested.

I see you complain about the lack of enforcement in your area pretty much every post, is it getting you anywhere?

I will say I doubt I could work in an area with out enforcement it would truly bother me, I would move or change jobs most likely.


JMO, Bob

Iwire
You are correct that the only way to get effective and fair code enforcement is thru the local or state politicians. Of those that I have personally met, I would have to say that electrical or building code adoption and enforcement are NOT a priority.
As long as no large public outcry is heard, they will not take the time to do anything about it.
Even if they finally do adopt a code, it then has to be enforced by someone. Then comes the fight of getting inspectors on the payroll. Then will the local district attourney and judges even take the case?
I have seen cases where inspectors issue citations and nothing happens. If the local jurisdiction does not have criminal penalties for unlicensed people, the fly by niters just walk away. The building owner may or may not have any action taken.
It takes a strong law and effective enforcement to slow down the fly by niters who hurt our trade. If any of those who can legally enforce code wimp out along the way you have accomplished nothing.
The problem is all this takes money and many local goverments are crying about going broke. Many of the citizens in areas that do not have enforcement agencies do NOT want them.
A few caring individuals will have a very hard time getting politicians to even start the process.
If the NFPA and IAEA or other simular groups do not help out, the job of getting fair and effective code enforcement will not happen.