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#86126 09/13/03 03:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
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Sorry PCBelarge, I didn't see your earlier reply. I probably should be straight forward and ask my question. I thought it was a simple one and I'd look stupid if I had stated that I'm an electrical contractor. Sorry for the confusion it was my fault. I did infact update my profile to state my occupation thanks for letting me know.

CSL #820270 http://www2.cslb.ca.gov/CSLB_LIBRARY/license+request.asp

Check that againt my profile.

Byron

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#86127 09/13/03 03:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
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Bryon

I agree with E-Scott about not using the gutter. Use a 2-gang meter center which holds a feeder breaker for each meter and make your grounding electrode connection here. From the meter center install 4-wire feeders to each unit and use main lug load centers. Since your in Northern CA these meter centers should be very easy to find. If your supplier does not have any in stock they can get one in a couple of days.

Curt


Curt Swartz
#86128 09/13/03 03:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
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Byron,

We're all here to help each other.
There's no need to feel sheepish about asking a question like that as no one here knows everything. I've been Licensed for about 20 years yet learn something new almost every day.

Welcome aboard.

Bill


Bill
#86129 09/14/03 09:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
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If the panels are right next to each other, why not run to the # 4 from the water meter. and loop it to both panels Into #1 out of #1 into #2 and bond each panel. You could do the same with the supplemental ground, or just run the supplemental ground to the water pipe

[This message has been edited by russ m (edited 09-14-2003).]

[This message has been edited by russ m (edited 09-14-2003).]

#86130 09/14/03 10:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 169
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When I first posted I had #8 for the ground, because the wire from the meter to the 100 amp panel would be #3.
I know the 250.66 says that the grounding conductor is based on the service entrance conductor.
Article 100 says the service entrance conductor is the service conductors between the terminals of the service equipment and a point usually outside the building, clear of the building walls.
If you had a 400amp service, with six meters, feeding six 100amp breaker panels with mains, and all the conduits ran under the concrete to panels in each dwelling. Would you require a #8 ground to each panel or would you require a 1/0.

#86131 09/16/03 12:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 197
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You state that the panels are right next to each other but you do not mention how far they are from the meters. In fact, you never even mention using any meters at all!

If the panels are right inside the home close to the meter location (w/in 8' in WI) then there is a cheaper/easier method than already mentioned. Use a double meter socket with 4/0 Al or 2/0 Cu up a single mast. There is no need to have OCP within the meter as long as the service entrance conduit is short. Run two 1 1/4 PVC’s from double meter to each panel inside. Use 3 #4 Cu or #2 Al conductors from each meter to its respective panel. Do your neutral to ground bonding in each panel (usually a green screw provided with the panel). You only need #8 Cu to run from the water pipe to each panel. One wire will suffice but you have to use an irreversible splice (such as a crimp) when you turn that one wire into two to attach to both panels. The wire to the ground rods (you have to use two in WI) also only needs to be #8 but, if the wire is not protected outside, you will need to use at least a size 4 Cu. Bare #4 copper works best for most residential ground rod wires because it doubles as a readily accessible grounding location on the outside of the home for such things as telephone and satellite dishes.

After rereading your posts, I don't think I completely understand your situation. Since you say that you are an electrical contractor, there is absolutely no way you could have forgotten about installing a meter socket. That would be about as likely as an electrician forgetting how to install a lightbulb! Apparrently, there must be a single meter elsewhere on the property and the rental units are not separately metered. But if that were the case, now would be the time to rectify the situation which, of course, you should also know. Something is not adding up. Please fill us in on the secret.

#86132 09/16/03 01:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
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I was planning on going with an all-in-one panel for each unit. Since then, others have suggested the dual meter panel which I like better. I'm going to look at one tomorrow at the supply shop. Thanks for your input.

Byron

#86133 09/16/03 06:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
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Quote
also, what is the differnece between grounding and bonding?

[aside]a conceptual issue with many rop's moving toward cleaner terminology[/aside]

#86134 09/18/03 12:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 197
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Don't forget to bond around the water meter. Place a water pipe bonding clamp on each side of the water meter and run your #8 through each.

In my area, the electrician does NOT bond gas piping in any way (commercial or residential). Maybe there are exceptions here but they must be few and far between.

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