ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

OK, I removed the statement.

You should edit your posts too, and when I get home I will search for that information.

I have received an email from a very well known instructor who said the following:

"Hi Joe:

I tell people that the grounding electrode conductor (GEC) can be "bare, or any color but green, white, green/yellow or orange" in my PV power systems and the NEC presentations that I make to electrical inspectors and electricians and PV professionals. Most use bare with black as a distant second choice.

I do not favor a new color as it will be hard to get in many locations and will take years to educate and implement."

I'm with txsparky. Where ahj's are involved around here,green on anything to do with the gec or bonding is the norm.

Posted by Joe

You always tell us to ask inspectors for code cites, so I ask you where are the very well known instructors code cites?

Even if we know that something is the CMPs intent if it did not make it in to the code book is it enforceable?

iwire:

No, but the panel statement for the rejection is often used by instructors to explain the CMP's position.

See the following set of specifications for grounding by those who want to avoid confusion in the design of their buildings:
www.va.gov/facmgt/standard/spec/16450.doc

Note: the term "bare" for is required for the GEC, etc.

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 03-10-2003).]

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?srch=104&FORM=AS4&q=section+16450+electrical+specifications

Please look at the links here for grounding specifications and find where they use a color for the GEC.

I will look too, and I believe that most call for "bare" to be used.

Joe,
I looked through the links that you provided and agree that some engineers seem to spec a bare wire for the GEC. However,I thought this discussion was about whether or not the NEC prohibited green to identify the GEC.Just because an engineer specs bare wire has no bearing on the discussion and certainly doesn't make it a code rule.

With all due respect I do not see where CMP comments, intent, or knowledge of the code making process is relevant here.

If the discussion is about what is written in the code the answer should be indisputable. (I believe that most of us can read quite well) If the code is wrong, or failed to convey the intent of the CMP that is another story entirely.

Bill

Aw man, even my bare GECs end up turning green anyway...

Almost like they know what color to be...

I'd be asking for a code ref should stripping long runs of 1/0 GEC bare be desired

Joe,
I admit to having no knowledge of the way in which the code panels come to their decisions, and I'm sure that you were already aware that although I have worked in the U.S.A. it was not in a field which required knowledge of the NEC. That's why I started my post the way I did.....

However, surely the original question was whether using green for the GEC is a violation of the (2002) NEC, as published.

If an AHJ adopts the NEC, surely they do so only on the basis of what is written in the publication? (Plus any written amendments they have the authority to make.)

Can an inspector working strictly to the NEC cite a violation on the basis of what he believes the panel meant to say, or what he thinks they should have said? Surely he can only pass or fail on the basis of what is actually written in the rules? I seem to recall several discussions to this effect in the past.

Like many of the other posters in this thread, I just don't see any way to interpret the specific codes you cited as prohibiting the use of green for a GEC.

If I'm missing something or there is another section I should be reading which could in some way modify 250.119 et al, then please point me toward it -- I am trying to study sections of the NEC as and when I get the chance in order to learn more!