ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues AFCI's Are Here to Stay!

n1ist:
look at the ROP's, there are proposals to install these in other branch circuits in residences as well. (they have been rejected, so far)

The AFCI issue aside...IMHO, the "if it saves one life" arguement is usually a dead giveaway that what follows is either a bad idea or not supported by fact.

Isn't it worth spending 50 million dollars if it can save one life?

NO, it isn't! By spending 50 mil to TRY to save one life you are killing hundreds or thousands of people who could have been saved if the money had been better spent, perhaps on heart disease tests, or mamograms, or colon cancer screenings, or food and shelter, or free electricity in the hot months, or hiring more cops or 911 dispatchers.

Shouldn't we put 16 inches of rubber and foam around every telephone pole? If it would save just one life... Wouldn't YOU feel bad if your sister died because she slammed into an unsafe pole?

Shouldn't we eliminate gun ownership...

Lets raise the driving age to 18 or 21 or 30. If it would save only one life it would be worth it.

Shouldn't every electrical panel have a child-proof anti-tampering mechanism on it? Shouldn't you be required to install one? (shoot me now!)

Shouldn't our common household plugs be scrapped for one that is inherently shock-proof? If it would save just one life...

Who here has a defibulator on their work trucks? Why not? Too cheap to save a life?

In the AFCI case; wouldn't an older house be safer if instead of installing AFCIs you spent an equal amount of billable time inspecting each existing splice box for poor connections, checking old outlets, plugs, wiring and sockets for damaged insulation or improper use?

Shouldn't CPR training be mandatory for people in the elctrical trades?

'still not arguing against ACFIs, just tossing more fuel on this fire! (er, I mean, food for thought...yeah, that's the ticket)

Let the flames err..games begin

<texsparky getting lawnchairs,cooler and hot dogs ready>

How would you answer that if it were one of your family members?Would it be a hard decision?

This is who started it...Let's get em!! http://www.mikeholt.com/news/archiv...uirements_f or_AFCI_began_07-31-2002.htm

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 01-29-2003).]

my bold to indicate key wordage...


Or perhaps......Real Electrical Inspections by Real Electrical Inspectors!

(what a novel idea!)

50 mil of that would 'buy' a lot of safety IMO.....but hey, no corporation would profitright??

Sparky,
Based on the stated fact that 85% of the electrical fires that were investigated occurred in homes at least 20 years old, the fact that AFCIs are only expected to prevent 50% of the electrical fires on the circuits that they protect, and the number of new homes constructed each year, we can expect that in the first year of full compliance with the AFCI rule to prevent 15 fires or 0.036% of the 42,000 estimated fires. The 100 million dollar plus investment to install these AFCIs would be expected to save 0.12 lives, prevent 0.48 injuries and save $210,000 of property in the first year!!!
Don

As I see it snake oil sales men neesed a new product to peddle. So they took a good idea, did maybe 1/3/to1/2 the work needed to truly make a good product. Then went to work forcing us to buy thier unperfected produt. The want the profits and commisions. I have nothig against a fair profit or a sales man getting a fair comission. But when they shove something down our throuts with a bunch of HYPE and abuse a good system of code making to do it- they have a lot to hide. What it is and how well thse latest pieces of snake oil will work remains to be seen.
BTW every time I have thrown away an AFCI that was continually tripping, I spent -and was paid for- a least 2 hours of troubleshooting time. If a circuit will pass a megger test and has nothing miswired and still trips an AFGI but not a GFI breaker, then it the breaker. Good by to it.

electech,

If we are going to shoot you, we'd better do it before they do eliminate gun ownership!