ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
UL 508A SPACING
by ale348 - 03/29/24 01:09 AM
Increasing demand factors in residential
by tortuga - 03/28/24 05:57 PM
Portable generator question
by Steve Miller - 03/19/24 08:50 PM
Do we need grounding?
by NORCAL - 03/19/24 05:11 PM
240V only in a home and NEC?
by dsk - 03/19/24 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
1 members (ale348), 302 guests, and 14 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
#82829 12/18/02 01:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Member
Quote
Dear Mr. Tedesco:

I don't know if you have the time to answer questions, but I am at the end of my rope.

GFCI protection: I am receiving conflicting information from the local electrical gurus -all knowledgeable folks.

Specifically: 1960 house has old two-wire fabric covered Romex (with no
ground). There is no ground at the metal receptacle boxes. The conflict is
this: (A) I am told by several sources that I can afford a degree of
protection, particularly in wet areas, by installing GFCI's in these
locations. (B) I am told by others that GFCI's are useless without wiring
them to a ground.

I certainly would like to take the less expensive alternative of putting in
GFCI everywhere, but not if it's useless.

If you can answer, thanks.

Don Gilbert
donski55@usa.net


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
 

#82830 12/18/02 01:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
Member
Don,

GFCIs will offer you some protection on 2 wire (ungrounded) circuits. They do not need a ground wire to operate and are a legitimate replacement for 2 prong receptacles as long as they are marked "No Equipment Ground" (NEC 406.3(D)(3)(b))

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 12-18-2002).]


Bill
#82831 12/18/02 03:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Member
Quote
All:

Thank you for your quick and informative reply. It verified what I thought I knew, and what my research had shown. (A) that it can be done. (B) That apparently many of the "gurus" are locked into only one way of doing things (in this case a complete, very expensive rewiring job).


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
#82832 12/18/02 06:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
S
Member
However a word of advice.

In the future, when you do get the funds, I think you should look into updating the wiring.

Just to avoid the risk of fire from frayed and decaying insulation.

Sometimes a simple task of changing a receptacle on old wiring turns into a nightmare when the insulation crumbles between your fingers! [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by SvenNYC (edited 12-18-2002).]

#82833 12/18/02 10:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 4
Member
Don,

Keep in mind that if a Ground is needed for something to function properly it obviously will not. I am told that some surge-protectors fall into this category. So, if you are trying to protect some electronic products on these circuits with surge protectors you had better make sure that they will work.

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 12-18-2002).]


Bill
#82834 12/20/02 01:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
E
Member
250.114 (3) ,with the exception of listed double insulated equipment, results in the idea, "if an equipment's cord has a grounding blade in the plug, then a connection to the grounding electrode system must be supplied".

Even though the GFI, with no equipment ground, behaves as if it is grounded, the exposed-noncurrent-carrying metal parts of cord-and-plug-connected equipment likely to become energized shall be grounded.

Another caution pertains to the box volume required now verses 1960. A lot of the old wiring was done in boxes that are way to small for today. By replacing the old two-wire receptacle with a new GFI, one must calculate the box volume required based on today's NEC.

Al


Al Hildenbrand
#82835 12/22/02 02:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
T
Member
I don't think a GFCI would even fit into some of the old boxes [Linked Image]


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5