ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Increasing demand factors in residential
by tortuga - 03/28/24 05:57 PM
Portable generator question
by Steve Miller - 03/19/24 08:50 PM
Do we need grounding?
by NORCAL - 03/19/24 05:11 PM
240V only in a home and NEC?
by dsk - 03/19/24 06:33 AM
Cordless Tools: The Obvious Question
by renosteinke - 03/14/24 08:05 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 265 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
UL can't have it both ways. In the document that was linked by George, they say that you must follow the manufacturers instructions, but they classify breakers to be used in panels where the use of these classified breakers is prohibited by the panel manufacturer's instructions.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
 

Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
T
tdhorne Offline OP
Member
The code requires us to comply with instructions included in the listing or labeling viz.

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

If it isn't on the laboratory label or the white sheet it isn't "included."

Don is right they can not have it both ways.
--
Tom


Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
Member
Don,

See, this seems to be a conflict here. Am I suppose to follow the manufactures instructions and only allow "Their" breakers in their panel? Or should I allow all "UL" breakers in everyone's panels if they say that they are listed? [Linked Image]

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Harold,
In my opinion, only instructions that are an actual part of the listing and labeling are required to be followed by 110.3(B). Instructions that serve only the manufacturer's interests are not part of the listing process. The problem comes with UL making the statement that they did in the document cited by George Carron in a previous post on this thread.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
Member
Don,

I realize that most manufactures only want their breakers in their own panels. I can also accept the fact that Cutler Hammer tpye "BR" breakers are UL listed for use in many panels. However when I fail a job, I usually give the contractor a choice, I tell him that either he has to prove to me that the breaker is listed for that panel or else he will have to use a breaker from the same manufacture of the panel. I have yet to see a Square D breaker listed for for a Siemans breaker. It may be out there, and everyday something else new comes along, but who knows?

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 197
G
Gwz Offline
Member
Don,

With-out the Standards, how is one to be certain which instructions packaged with panelboards etc., are instructions for the listed product or for the manufacturers interest ?

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Gwz,
That is an other problem with this issue. UL should require the manufacturers to clearly state what instructions are part of the listing and which ones are just manufacturer's recomendations.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 308
S
Member
I only allow the manufacturer's breakers or classified breakers. there are some of those little black breakers that don't fit very well in other manufacturers panels. I also let people know that if you don't use the manufacturer's breakers you void a warranty and anything that happens regardless of the reason will probably have no hope in court. I've seen breakers malfunction and busses melt. A flaw in the manufacturing process of the panel will be much harder to convince a judge if you use unclassified or unlisted breakers in the panel. The panel manufacturer's lawyer will talk his way out of this every time. He may even get away with it even if classified breakers were used.

Does it happen much? Never heard of a case. But I'd hate to be the first guy who gets screwed.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5