ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues What is neat and workmanlike?

Harold,

Was not critiquing the work, just pokin' some fun. As for the vertical screws, my grandfather was a cabinetmaker and aligned all his screws vertically.

Using a level to check the alignment is something that never crossed my mind. Thanks for the tip!

I think we all know neat & workmanlike when we see it.

However, just to start an arguement, what does "neat & workmanlike" have to do with safety? See 90.1 which states the purpose of the code. If the installation is code compliant in every respect except "neat...", what hazard exists?

On the other hand, I am glad to see the NEIS being adopted by ANSI so that there will at least be some standard that is enforceable that doesn't depend on someone's imagination.

One more question, should 2 levels of "neat & workmanlike" exist? One for the homeowner & one for the pro? When I've got my inspectors hat on, I have enough trouble getting some homeowners to comply with the NEC. I can just imagine what they'll say if I turn down their work because it doesn't meet a high level of craftsmanship.

Tom

I can appreciate that Tom, i am not an inspector, however may be the sole viewing party, and simply side on safety....

<threadjack>
Hey Tom! Welcome back!

Uh, where ya been?

(Just curious)
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Tom,

I agree with you a lot on this one. Trying to get homeowners to follow the NEC is a tough enough job. By the way, I have had contractors, yelling at me when their job fails. Calling someone's work, "sloppy" "Unworkmanlike" or not neat, is a tough call. I try to "politly" ask them to change something, so that it will pass inspection.

Caper

At least the National Electrical Installation Standards will give us an impartial way to judge the workmanship issue, but I would still be hesitant to cite someone if the rest of the job is safe.

Virgil- Does four tens & two eights since mid-May explain it? Plus a few weeks of six tens and one stretch of 20 straight days worked. Whew! we're down to four tens & one eight, almost feels like a vacation.

Tom

When I took my fire service administrative law course the lawyer instructing the course made us read a case that had gone against an electrical inspection office that turned down a job on the basis of it being not neat and workman like. The appeals court ruled that the term was too vague to be enforceable and that any ruling based solely on that section would be "arbitrary and capricious" by definition. I know you are going to ask for the legal citation but that course was twenty five years ago. The point the instructor was trying to make was that those who exercise the police power of the state must always have a specific reason to bring that power to bear against a citizen. Maybe one of you has access to online legal research facilities and can do a search for the phrase.
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Tom