ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Lowes Knows????????

Just went to the new Lowes here in Worcester MA. Picked up some of that new fangled colored romex. While I was there I noticed all of their display Squre D panels were mounted upside down! They also have displays showing the diy's some wiring. Switches and outlets wired with romex, stapled with NON Insulated staples. Maybe I am being nit picky but if they are showing this in the store what could they possibly be telling people to do with the stuff they are selling them! At least the prices are good.

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 03-07-2002).]

Not a flame.

Square D panels are made so the main can be on top or the bottom. There have been several occasions when I have had to install panels with the main on the bottom. No argument from the AHJ. As far as non-insulated staples, here in CO they are allowed.

A contracter I know, who moved here from MA, expressed the same concern about non-insulated staples.

Electricmanscott
yup, an' the 'big orange place' too..

BTW
LOL!, showin' yer Mass roots there with those ins. staples....

Lowes can't even do lumber & hardware right, no small wonder they screw up the electrical.I base this on past personal experiance on the lumber & hardware part. Also, when doing electrical inspections of service entrances, about 1/2 of the failures are due to people shopping at Lowes.

Also not a flame....

To be fair, I dont think Lowe's and Home Depot are responsible for the bad wiring that is done. Unsafe wiring is done by unqualified people.
After all, we are in America and you can buy electrical supplies anywhere. It would be impossible to regulate the sale of electrical supplies only to electricans.
Im not a big fan of those DIY stores and I try not to shop there, but they do come in handy sometimes.

As far as the uninsulated staples go, they should be banned in the next Code. I'm surprised that those stores even sell them. I have seen them there myself and I wonder who buys them. (I live in CT where they are never used.) Check out my photos "Bad wiring? What do you think?" in the photo section to see why not to use uninsulated staples.

Jeez, I've been using uninsulated staples for almost 30 years. I don't seem to have a problem with them, you do have to be just a little careful when using them. Is there a proposal to the NFPA to restrict their use in the next code edition?

As far as the Lowes thing goes that I mentioned above, it is incorrect material & advice that leads to the code violations, courtesy of the electrical dude at Lowes.

I guess I didn't realize that it is a Massachusetts code change that requires insulated staples. Seems like good practice to me. I wonder how may people used to staple two cables on edge. That is another one I dont understand.

Tom-
There is no proposal to change the Code rule that I know of. It is simply my opinion that there should be one. There is no problem with uninusulated staples as long as they are installed carefully. My house was wired with them, as are many others in the US. However, I have seen many of them overdriven and also with 3 wires underneath them. The insulated staples add a little margin of safety.

Home improvement stores should just sell the stuff. They should not give out advice. I have no argument with you on that one. I have overheard the bad advice they have given to inexperienced people, so I completely agree with you.

I was at lowes the other week, and a customer of theirs was buying wire to install a service, he was looking at the 3-conductor URD and wanted to know how to tell the conductors apart, was there any special way to mark them and if they had to go into the meter base in any special manner. And the clerk told him No.
Tom is right on, these people are instructing non-trades people on how to do services or any other type of wiring and themselves dont even have a clue.
Then the inspectors come out and gig the job and have to explain how to do the job right.
Are they really saving money by doing it themselves ??????????
-Mark-

And to think I thought I was the only one who has had issues with Lowes. I too have seen the mockup's for the DIY in the electrical departmetn and have gone to the extent of bringing it up to code for them, after the Lowes Employee said that I was wrong!!! (40A breaker on a 14-2 lighting circuit!!!) I have also been present for the new home owner wanting to do his own service. The Employee was selling mobile home feeder to the home owner to run from his meter base to his weather head!!!!! Apparently they have never heard of the NEC code in that store and the DIY is suffering, while making our trade look bad. I can't count all the times I have fixed the job that a Lowe's Employee has showed a DIY how to do.