ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Report On Proposals for 2002, Grounds up or Down...

Hate to start this here, IT NOT BEING CODE AND ALL I always looked at old worn receptacles hanging half way out of the wall and figured the ground was better down because at least the ground was still intact. agreed the others being loose is also dangerous, but the LAST thing I want coming out is the ground, which of course, is the very reason it is longer, first make last break thing.

Reel-break Alright, ya got me man, my grandfathers and father could all do math on their squares like I could a slide rule, I never picked it up, going into the wrong trade (according to them) but.....WHAT'S THE DIAMOND FOR????????????

Sparky, NOTHING ticks me off more than another trade telling me some great BS they heard is code, and NOTHING gets me quoting code faster. If you held your cool, you can be glad I was not there with you

Hmm, that brings to mind a plumber/builder/general handyman a few years ago who tried to tell me that I had to run a "ring earth" around a building to every radiator and back to the panel.

Ground up or down: Just how likely is it that some metallic object falling would be so close to the wall as to hit the hot/neutral prongs of a plug not fully engaged in the receptacle? I can't see this being a problem.

I'll throw in my ignorance with George too, and ask about that diamond symbol. ???

I think the diamonds or triangles are for placing five studs in a wall over
an eight foot space rather than four or six studs.

If you divide five into 96 inches, it will give 19.2 inches. In other
words, 4 into 96" = 24", 5 into 96" = 19.2", and 6 into 96" = 24".
I think these are the normal centerings of wall studs.
How far off am I?
Tiff

Good guess Tiff, they are commonly used for laying out "silent floor" (aka wood I-beams) which are engineered to work out on a 19.2 center for the 4x8 decking.

Aren't normal wall studs and/or joists on U.S. homes on 16" centers?

pauluk, 16 OC is the standard but in some areas in the US it is permissible to frame 24" OC. This is common around hear on roofs and ceilling joist in less expensive homes.

George,
Musser and I were brought up by Hixson to put them in ground up, he always gave the "gravity" theory. I, however, have found out that manufacturers design their electric-utilizing wares for ground-down orientation... Stress on 90º and 45º angle appliances cords are my biggest beef... They're designed that way to relieve stress. Night lights and other plug in devices like CO detectors tend to become upside down...

As far as manufacturer's "labelling", residential Leviton recepts have the wording stamped readable ground down, spec grades are readable ground up.

I now put them in ground down for residential, and up for commercial/industrial unless told otherwise by the powers-that-be, or if existing recepts already dictate otherwise.

Your argument is noted for my arsenal!



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-03-2002).]

This subject has been hashed out for decades. If the U-ground is mounted 'up' on kitchen-counter receptacles, the loose end of a roll of aluminum foil on the counter could more likely contact the hot/neutral pins from contact underneath; if reversed, the U-ground pin could limit that.

Sometimes we are all guilty of being "well frogs." That's living in a well and thinking it's the ocean.

[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 05-03-2002).]

Just to be sure...

Are there any other codes (CABO, BOCA, other...) that could possibly hint towards a requirement for a certain receptacle orientation? Even on a state on municipal level?

I've personally have been told by a housing inspector (FHA) to turn a ground up receptacle over in a kitchen... no word on the lack of GFCI... (walk-through inspection for a potential homeowner, not my work, just was there for an estimate...)

Any other horror stories out there?



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 05-04-2002).]

Bjarney. I hope you are joking about the aluminum foil.