ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area A Disturbing Thought !!

My nephew is a contractor in Michigan. His business plan includes building a home for himself every two years and then selling it and building again.

He does this for tax reasons.

He also did his own rough electric in his house. He lacks an electrical license. He does have a permit and because he is the property owner he can do the electrical work.

He asked me to do the finished electric. I made several observations while doing so. (I did so without a license as I was only asked to install recepts, fans and the like.

First, his planning was bad. I have no idea why a circuit would handle an outdoor outlet, one dining room light (out of 3) and one living room light (out of 8 and on the side away from the dining room).

Second, he had hard to find mistakes. He had a light and ceiling fan sharing a box but powered by different breakers. This is a real bad place to share a neutral. (I tied the breakers together.) In the middle of a 20amp circuit he had a 14g wire. (This was do to a change in his wiring plans.) I changed to a 15amp breaker.

An inspector would never catch these mistakes. He does not have the time to spend.

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I do wiring on property I own without a license.

Michigan does indeed allow a homeowner to secure a permit for wiring.

A homeowner is defined as follows:
A homeowner is a person who occupies or will occupy a single-family dwelling and
other accessory structures located on the same lot intended for use by the
homeowner for which the permit is obtained and who will install the
electrical equipment as certified by the homeowner on the permit application
in accordance with section 10(4) of 1972 PA 230, MCL §125.1510(4).

I do end up spending quite a bit more time inspecting some of these jobs, 'cause as was mentioned earlier, the folk that buy the house next really don't know who wired the house.
You will also note that homeowners may not secure a permit to allow anyone else to work in the home.

Bill

About the Builders pulling permit's and selling houses ,,,,this something closely watched , and we do retain the right to refuse , as for not pulling one on a new home, well the building inspector will NOT even inspect without the proper signitures on the permit first ie elec ,plumbing, gas and in some towns Mech .
If someone pulls more than one building permit he will NOT be granted and elec permit.
also on the permit he states it's his own home . not just something he owns .

99% of the Builders don't play with this , not if they want to keep building around town,
does it happen probably but i haven't seen it,
i can't speak for other towns or cities but here, we have 4 elec inspectors 3 plumbing,1 gas,4 building, and 8 housing inspectors , driving around all day , any of them see anything , we are all on radios , i could be standing behind you in under 10 mins ,,,lol
not to mention Fire inspectors ( about 10)

today i got a call from fire , workers ran an extention cord across the STREET from one new home to work on another one , took me about 5 mins , then i start checking lic's, permits , and safety (OSHA) violations .
and if I need them the police are on the same radio frequency .

dlabrenz, HIGHVOLTAGE,

Thank You for your responses. It sounds like you guys are on top of things there. It makes me feel better.

You may have heard about a House that Blew up recently on Long Island. I didn't hear too many details, but got the impression that there was not much left of it. Some people that were interviewed were saying something about how "handy" the owner of the house was, doing his own work and even designing his own Gas Furnace. Now, I never heard definitely what the cause of the explosion was, but it it should make people wonder about some things.

Bill

[war story]
ahh yes, years ago i responded to a similar incident. the owner had run out of gas, the gas co. would not come due to his account in arrears. said resident hooked his barb-q grill bottle into the furn, no reg. He did manage to get to the top of the stairs, where upon switching the ceallar lights ( time given for the gas bottle to fill the furn, etc.) there was a notable blast that sent him sailing, the basement nuked ( lotta punch) and hordes of red lights responding...

the irony at the time being that no certification need be had for any NFPA 54 activity, yet hairdressers were required licensure....

the moral? if you don't know your S***, you should not be attempting it.

as yet i've not uncovered any hairdresser related mass casualties......maybe head lice qualifies?

I don't understand why all there is such an NEC focus on residential codes, yet an inversely reciprocal approach to enforcement.

It is soooo contradictory to all those who preach safety, and very frustrating to those who would invest thier time and effort in good tradesmanship & solid business practices, only to be outbid by a carpenter's helper!

To this end, the examples in the photo sections here are lame by comparisson, come on up for the weekend ( beers on me, yer gonna need a few) & i'll curl your hair without ever layin' a hand on you.

where's the asprin....

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 03-02-2002).]

Laguna Beach, CA has a policy that I think's at least a step in the right direction.
Homeowners are allowed to pull a permit to do their own electrical work only after passing an "Owner-Builder" test. Although the test is not too difficult, it weeds out some of the total nit-wits (who probably go home and do the work anyway, sans permit).

I actually had the opportunity to pin down the City of Dallas Chief Electrical Code Inspector on this very issue. (a)must pass a written or verbal test demonstrating knowledge and proficiency to the satisfaction of the Chief Electrical Inspector, (b)owner must actually HOMESTEAD the residence in question, (c)must apply for and secure a permit, (d)must be inspected upon completion.

Even myself, a licensed electrician and owner of a couple of additional rental houses, must comply (with the exception of (a)in my case).

[This message has been edited by 3rd degree Burns (edited 03-02-2002).]