ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues 240.24(B), et al

Fire Dept/Police Dept Lock Box, an outside box that contains a set of keys to the building for the FD/PD. (Same as a concrete encased realtor's keybox). They're opened by a FD/PD round key, and in many jurisidictions they're a requirement.



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-17-2001).]

Scott,

I also know where you are coming from on this one!

On a certain Multifloor Building in County Of LA [Westwood Village], The PD and FD have their own Lock Box for the Service Equipment Room. Note that the Lock Box is located next to the Service Equipment Room's door.
What's really great is that the Service Equipment Room - AND The Emergency Power [UPS] Room are located in the Basement, inside of a Health Club [not a 24 hour one either ].

To know where they are located is done with Crystal Balls or Tarot Cards [joke]. To get in the Health Club, one must first contact the on-site Security guard[s] - page them and wait for 20 minutes!

The Tenant we were doing a major remodel for in said building had no clue where the services were, let alone an A/C subpanel, which was used for all of their HVAC Equipment!!!

After the project was completed, I drew up a very extensive As-Built for this Tenant! Showed exactly where all the related equipment was at and how to get to it [through the giant maze of walls, stairwells, elevators and tenant spaces!].

This was a 15 floor building, with 34,5 KV primary voltage, 480 V 3 phase 3 wire Delta, 480Y/277 3 phase 4 wire Wye and 120/240 3 phase 4 wire Delta Secondaries. Services ranged from 1000 amps for the 120/240 Delta, to 4000 amps for the 480Y, to 6000 amps for the 480 Delta.

Scott SET

sparky wrote: <<Is there a Fireman here that will comment??>>

As a fire fighter I have an array of forcible entry tools and I have been thoroughly trained in their use. So one way or the other I will reach the service equipment if I need to. If I had my way though all buildings would have an exterior disconnect or knox box access to the electrical and other utilities. The Southern Building Code required external disconnects for power to single family homes at one time. I have no idea if it still does.
--
Tom

Thanks Tom.
so the bottom line is install a Knox box
(how much can they really be?) or witness what a haligan & flat head axe can do in a hurry.

"Code" here doesn't specify any sort of exterior disconnect or access in general, but it does require an external "Fireman's switch" for high voltage neon lighting on commercial buildings (or any other similar type of exterior HV discharge lighting).

There are regs. as to the min. & max. height, labeling, etc. and the switch is a side lever which can be operated by a hook stick, or pushed to the off position (up) with any other convenient stick or rod.

Do you have any similar disconnect requirements for HV lighting?

Paul,
All signs and outline lighting are required to have a disconnecting means within sight.

With my highest respect for the Firemen, I was in one of these buildings when someone smelled smoke. (Of course they came right to me and asked me "what I'd done").
A secretary called the FD, and it was about 15 min before they arrived (8 Trucks!).
In a major earthquake, their resources could be all tied up.
Fortunately, the problem was just an A/C blower motor that cooked. I was in that bldg again the other day, and that's what started me on this "cyber tantrum". The landlord still won't let them have a key.
So, is it a violation or not???

BTW, 'lest any "unethical" types be reading, Knox Boxes as we install them have alarm contacts. (That's why the electrician installs them)

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-18-2001).]

I would make said landlord understand his liability in the event of an incident in his absence.

sparky Wrote
"Thanks Tom.
so the bottom line is install a Knox box
(how much can they really be?) or witness what a halligan & flat head axe can do in a hurry. <https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/eek.gif>"

The boxes cost between one and three hundred installed depending on the model and the wall in or on which it is installed. The repair of an adams right angle dead bolt lock and the replacement of the glass in the door cost more and yet it took some building owners three to five sets of doors to realize that having a "man on the way" would not keep us from forcing the doors to reach the fire or the utility rooms. One company even went to court to try to make us pay for the doors. The judge read the state disaster act from the bench and warned the plaintiffs attorney never to bring a similar claim into her court again.
--
Tom

Thanks Tom,
We needed the 'word' from a trade
( firefighter) professional in this thread