ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Heater-Fan-Lite Combos

(pokes head out of crawlspace to post..)

Bill, I'll scan / e-mail it to you ok?

(returns to add to cobbweb collection on hat...)

Let's say one runs a 3-conductor multiwire for the two small appliance loads in a kitchen. Obviously, after the neutral is split to each GFCI, it cannot be reconnected, or the GFCI's won't work properly. Let's say it is a small kitchen with limited counter space and either 2 gang with double duplex, or a split receptacle on a single gang is on the GFCI's load sides... Remembering the FPN that suggests alternating the circuits for better diversity, let's assume that each box will contain both circuits.

Would this be improper as well?
Let's assume there are handle-ties, or a double pole breaker.

What if I run two 2-Cond cables both from the same side of the panel? That is, there's zero volts between the hot conductors.

Then I'd have a common trip breaker and I'd have to have two neutrals.

Then, in Virgil's kitchen setup just above, there's no 240 V on the counter in the kitchen.

I'd have to balance the service a little differently, though.

Al

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 10-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 10-27-2001).]

Bordew,
It is only a multi-wire ckt. if you run a single neutral from different hots. What if you start your circuits from the 2 different breakers fed from the same bus. Would it be a violation?

ElectricAL,
What you describe is not a multi-wire ckt.
Although it may be foolish to do so, you could install that configuration without handle ties. Correct?
BTW,
I think the reason handle-ties are not REQUIRED if wired as 2 separate ckts. is because the 2nd neutral in the box would tip-off someone that there is another circuit involved.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 10-27-2001).]

Virgil;
as to your 10-25 post here;

As far as wire space, I haven't noticed the capacity labelled in these, stamped or otherwise... Does the UL sticker "exempt" them as per a motor "peckerhead"?

I see that 300-15 (b) apparently allows blowing off 314 ( fill, etc...)

some real interesting changes going on here.....

For what an outsider's 2-cents is worth, I can't see any problem with running a separate cable for the heater, so long as the heater neutral is kept separate from the other neutrals.

Wired in this way, I would regard the heater section as being a separate circuit (or "sub-circuit" if you will), but one which just happens to have its load in the same physical fitting as the lights & fan motor.

Wow!,

Are We going for the record here?
Sparky, true to his word, has sent me a scan of the instruction sheet for a Nutone unit. I guess that it's a good thing to keep these things. (too bad he didn't keep the ones in English!)

M****a!
(skulks off clutching his green card..) http://translation2.paralink.com/

[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 10-27-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 10-27-2001).]

Redsy,

I take your point. I haven't really appreciated the narrowness of the definition of "Branch Circuit, Multiwire". I had tried looking up Multiwire earlier and missed it. . .has to be voltage difference between the hot conductors to be multiwire.

Seems to me that two hots from the same bus should qualify, though. If I'm moving fast or in low light, I could easily overlook the missing tabs, I could mistake the hookup for a wire-through, using the device to splice the conductors.

Al