ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues V-Drop Q

How about using the maximum allowable lamp wattage per the fixture labeling. Then use standard voltage drop calculations incorporating the maximum lamp currents possible and the actual distance.

I would not have concern if the lampholders were for a 17CFL lamp, but the med base lampholder invites trouble, lots of folks wouldn't know to change just the lamp in the retro, and:
. The building might change owners.
. Mr Cheap might realize how many 100 or 150 watt A lamps he can buy for the price of 1 CFL retro.
I've had a call to repair a C/B when the new tenant of a store moved in, only to find that he had crammed the light track full of heads with 150 watt PARs. He asked me to put in a bigger breaker, and probably had someone else do it after I told him what he didn't want to hear.

All good concerns here, you guys are a great sounding board

Tom,
would 110-4 be applicable?

Redsy,
that would be plain enough english for most people.....

electure,
i'm thinking of submitting my prints and figures under the guise of 215-5 ( even though these are branch circuits)

>However, NEC's stated purpose is "the practical safeguarding of persons and property..." 90-1(a).

If excessive voltage drop would cause operating problems in any equipment that is required for safety, then a case could be made for installing larger conductors.

If it were necessary for safety, then I would insist upon it.

But my point was that it is not necessary for safety (perhaps I should have said it that way directly). So the only problems I see is if the AHJ requires a different calculation (e.g., 180 W per fixture) or someone someday actually puts 150 W bulbs in many of the fixtures (a voltage drop will occur).

I was not suggesting ignoring the code or anything else dumb!

Just because it won't melt the wire or burn down the house is not a criterion ...

Where is the requirement that the outdoor wire be sized for 180 W fixtures at the actual distance?

Where is the requirement that the outdoor wire be sized for 180 W fixtures at the actual distance?

Dspark;
people call us because they figure we wire per code, which , in this case, is why i am utilizing the expertise of my fellow tradesmen on line

Sparky,

110-4 would not be of any help.

Actually, this issue has been beat to death many times, especially on the IAEI board. Voltage drop cannot be enforced under the NEC. I've heard of some jurisdictions adopting a voltage drop requirement. What a nightmare that would be. Can you just imagine the box fill problems you'd have running 10-2 romex in a house?

Tom

Tom;
thanks,
then i am simply adding to the confusion here. I think i will simplify things by using the 180W figure, passing the plans into the state, and asking for their approval / disapproval.

I know this sounds like a copout, but there is a level of 'protection' in my doing so.
besides, even the main. man knows better than to pull the lions tail...

I would not consider it a copout. If I were the plans reviewer, I would use 220-3 (b)(11) Other Outlets. "Other outlets not covered in (1) through (10) shall be computed based on 180 VA per outlet."
Another view is to use the VA rating of the equipment and lamps for which the fixture is rated and totally disregard the retrofit, which only serves to lower the voltage drop as well as lower power consumption.
As already stated, voltage drop is not enforcible, but is calculated to give a safe installation, which is in the interest of all of us here is this field.
Just another 2cents worth.

Thank you WARREN1 ,

that particular code ,may in fact be a solid enough statement to represent my figures.

I am grateful to have you all as a resource on this, i will attempt to reciprocate the favor if i can